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Travel Back In Time To Buy A Good TV Antenna

The technical side of broadcasting. Think IBOC is a sham? Talk about it here! How about HDTV? Post DX reports here as well.
Marcus
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:08 pm
Location: Sarnia, Ontario

Re: Travel Back In Time To Buy A Good TV Antenna

Post by Marcus » Sun May 04, 2014 8:05 pm

Arthur Mometer wrote:Is there a lot of pressure in subs and condo complexes in Canada to not have antennas, Marcus, like there is on the US side? The FCC explicitly allows this. Most people don't know it though. Does Canada? Another thing I noticed in Google Maps satellite images is the large number of in ground swimming pools on the Canadian side of the border compared to the US. I wonder why that would be. Perhaps fewer lawyers, or they can't advertise on TV like in the US? Liability for injuries and drownings has just about eliminated them on the US side, and red tape at the city and township level eliminates the rest. Many people have them removed, rather than pay much higher insurance premiums.
I don't know exactly what the laws are, but there are very satellite dishes at my building. I haven't noticed any antennas either, but I can think of a way to install one. Simply use a tripod and three cement blocks to weigh it down so that you don't drill any holes. After that you can run the coax wiring through the A/C slot.

With a swimming pool the solution is to build a high enough fence that is difficult to climb, and then build a gate with a lock on it.



ftballfan
Posts: 534
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:38 pm

Re: Travel Back In Time To Buy A Good TV Antenna

Post by ftballfan » Sun May 04, 2014 9:23 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
WCMU is really close to that area though
I doubt many people would be content having PBS as their sole viewing option.

Similar story in the Ludington area. Good outdoor antenna with a rotor should get you WCMW (PBS, local), WWTV-DT (CBS), WWTV-DT2 (FOX), WZZM (ABC) and will give you a fighting chance of receiving WPBN1-DT (NBC), WFQX-DT (FOX), WLUK (FOX), WFRV (CBS), and WBAY (ABC).

Still, the added complexity & cost associated with getting reliable OTA reception in the DTV age stinks!!!
And if one can get WPBN (NBC), they should also be able to get WPBN-DT2 (ABC//WGTU). I also think WGBA (NBC), WCMU (PBS), WGVU (PBS), and WPNE (PBS) could be doable in higher elevations. WCWF (CW) would probably be doable if it wasn't on the same channel as WCMW


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paul8539
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:20 pm

Re: Travel Back In Time To Buy A Good TV Antenna

Post by paul8539 » Mon May 05, 2014 10:46 pm

Do you have a picture of a Channel Master Color Vector 1211 and Quantum 1160 that you can post?



Arthur Mometer
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Location: Radar Room

Re: Travel Back In Time To Buy A Good TV Antenna

Post by Arthur Mometer » Mon May 05, 2014 11:07 pm

Here's an image of a Channel Master Quantum 1162, but so far, I cannot find an image of the CM Quantum 1160.

Image


"I'm meteorologist Arthur Mometer."

"Those of you who think you know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."

"Lies have to be repeated and repeated to be believed. Truth stands on its own merit."

Arthur Mometer
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Re: Travel Back In Time To Buy A Good TV Antenna

Post by Arthur Mometer » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:15 pm

WWTV 9 was off Dish for a while. Has it come back yet?

Now WDIV 4 is about to be taken off. With just a punch of a button, I can get WDIV with an attic antenna.

Time to BAA-Buy An Antenna, and not let these disputes prevent you from watching what you want to watch.


"I'm meteorologist Arthur Mometer."

"Those of you who think you know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."

"Lies have to be repeated and repeated to be believed. Truth stands on its own merit."

ftballfan
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Re: Travel Back In Time To Buy A Good TV Antenna

Post by ftballfan » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:31 pm

In many parts of the country (especially in urban/suburban areas), a good rooftop antenna will get more stations than satellite or cable


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k8jd
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:35 pm
Location: Commerce, MI

Re: Travel Back In Time To Buy A Good TV Antenna

Post by k8jd » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:49 am

BIG TV Antennas
A few decades ago another radio nut friend moved out of Detroit and built a hilltop house in eastern Livingston county.
My family went out there to visit over a weekend and early one morning (before sunrise) we turned on his TV to see what was on the air.
He had found the biggest antenna available and got it up on his roof.
We saw two and sometimes three different stations on each VHF channel by turning the antenna around. Before WXYZ TV signed on for the day we could see WABC TV in NYC coming thru the snow, 600 miles away !,
He told me this was not a rare condition, temp inversions there happened about half the time in some months. Hilltop location helped.



Arthur Mometer
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Re: Travel Back In Time To Buy A Good TV Antenna

Post by Arthur Mometer » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:22 am

I would be surprised if WABC-TV 7 was common. I have to wonder what year it was. As I recall, you would occasionally see WKBW-TV 7 from Buffalo, NY. And I do recall an era where the WABC-TV ID would make it all the way down the network path to local Michigan stations. Not saying it couldn't happen, just that at 500-600 miles, it would not be common, even if all other Channel 7s were off the air at the time. Livingston County has some amazing DX potential, and regular viewing potential though. Back in the 1960s, I was at a house out near Runyan Lake and they got good pictures with a 20 foot piece of wire as an antenna. It's several hundred feet above the elevation on either side in Flint or Detroit.

Before they took their combined seven old AM towers down, you could see the old site tower lights from WSNL 600 and WFDF 910 from places in Tyrone Twp. You probably can still see the WTRX 1330 tower lights still. WFNT 1470 towers are now unlighted. Many TV transmitting towers lights can easily be seen, most notably WEYI's tower from near Center Rd. and US 23, about 34 miles away. Not sure where you could see Southfield towers on 23, though they can be seen driving South on 75 North of Pontiac in some places.


"I'm meteorologist Arthur Mometer."

"Those of you who think you know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."

"Lies have to be repeated and repeated to be believed. Truth stands on its own merit."

Arthur Mometer
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Re: Travel Back In Time To Buy A Good TV Antenna

Post by Arthur Mometer » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:57 am

Here's a site that you can find the elevation for a location. You can touch the location and get the AMSL in meters. For example, put in Fenton, MI and then touch just north of US 23 and Center Rd. in Tyrone Twp., and you get 325 meters, about 1056 feet.

http://www.mapcoordinates.net/en


"I'm meteorologist Arthur Mometer."

"Those of you who think you know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."

"Lies have to be repeated and repeated to be believed. Truth stands on its own merit."

ftballfan
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Re: Travel Back In Time To Buy A Good TV Antenna

Post by ftballfan » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:43 pm

If I had the time and money, I would buy a house midway between two markets on a hill and put up a YUGE antenna to see what I could pull in


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WOHO
Posts: 929
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:05 am
Location: Cumulus has killed 1470 KHz

Re: Travel Back In Time To Buy A Good TV Antenna

Post by WOHO » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:09 am

Now that we're finally getting our antennae all rigged-up after the HDTV swap and the nice new subchannels being added, I'm really scared that this FCC BS cellphone DTV spectrum auction for their wireless buddies is going to see the demise of a few OTA stations and one or two double-up on one tower, causing us to lose our fun/free bonus subchannels, and some diving into useless crapola low-band VHF. I have trouble with RF5 - I think all the VHF Lo/Hi stations are grossly underpowered from the FCC models and could use more power to avoid pixilation.



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mtburb
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Location: Wyandotte, 17 miles from Southfield, 38 miles from Oregon

Re: Travel Back In Time To Buy A Good TV Antenna

Post by mtburb » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:05 pm

My family had that "Detroit-style" antenna setup when they first got television when they were still in Wyandotte in the 50's. Later had another one of those on their new home in Southgate when they moved there in April 1965, later taken down in the early 1980's when Wayne Cablevision (later Maclean Hunter, now Comcast) started serving Southgate and when Wyandotte Cable began operations.

We still remember when a number of Downriver residents also had yagis for channels 11 and 13 (and in some cases even one for channel 6) to get the professional sports games that were blacked out in the Detroit market.
Last edited by mtburb on Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:47 am, edited 2 times in total.


My furthest DTV tropo: KDKA Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania at 202 miles for three days in January 2017 and a night in September 2017 with only an Antennas Direct C2V!

Current setup: Antennas Direct C2Max (2018-present)

Arthur Mometer
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Re: Travel Back In Time To Buy A Good TV Antenna

Post by Arthur Mometer » Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:28 pm

People did put up 10 Element Yagis for WJIM-TV/WLNS 6, WTOL 11, and WSPD-TV/WTVG 13 back in the day. A channel 9 Yagi was a frequent "Local" add on antenna for the Detroit area. It really got messed up when they moved CBET 9 South. But I think they have the pattern pointed the correct direction now-toward Windsor. The only other nearby market station to stand a ghost of a chance of seeing regularly in the roughly Central Detroit Metro is WFUM/WCMW-TV 28.


"I'm meteorologist Arthur Mometer."

"Those of you who think you know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."

"Lies have to be repeated and repeated to be believed. Truth stands on its own merit."

User avatar
mtburb
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:28 pm
Location: Wyandotte, 17 miles from Southfield, 38 miles from Oregon

Re: Travel Back In Time To Buy A Good TV Antenna

Post by mtburb » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:17 pm

Well, today, I drove by a house on Oak Street in Wyandotte that still has a "Detroit-style" antenna setup. No photo, so enjoy the best Google Street View I could get of it instead.
Image

The long loop element covers WJBK, then a shorter one behind that is for WWJ, the shortest elements at the back are for WXYZ. The elements about a foot above all of those, pointed northeast, are for CKLW.


My furthest DTV tropo: KDKA Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania at 202 miles for three days in January 2017 and a night in September 2017 with only an Antennas Direct C2V!

Current setup: Antennas Direct C2Max (2018-present)

k8jd
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:35 pm
Location: Commerce, MI

Re: Travel Back In Time To Buy A Good TV Antenna

Post by k8jd » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:42 pm

That 8 ft parabolic dish has an apeture of something like 5.97 wavelengths, at mid UHF TV frequencies. The DB gain is proportional to that but I think you have to also factor in the focal length .
An unholy marriage of optics and antenna theory. :D
Anybody who can figure out the gain out there? Speak up !
Ed Joseph wrote:
Arthur Mometer wrote:One more antenna for tonight.
Wow... we had that EXACT setup, with the FM crossed Dipole with the big UHF parabolic reflector (7 foot) up around 60' when I was a teenager. Had a massive Cornell-Dublier rotor mounted inside the tower. We could pull in signals from at least 150 miles out and that FM antenna was great for an omni.

But it took about a dozen of us to walk that tower up with all that on it.



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