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Old Cable TV Line ups(New thread)

Topics of general interest that just don't fit anywhere else.
Mega Hertz
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Re: Old Cable TV Line ups(New thread)

Post by Mega Hertz » Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:53 pm

Anyone remember Nostalgia Channel and Movietime?


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ChrisWL1980
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Re: Old Cable TV Line ups(New thread)

Post by ChrisWL1980 » Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:15 am

rugratsonline wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 9:24 pm
ChrisWL1980 wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:55 pm
CBET was the only Canadian station carried on the cable systems I grew up watching. I could get TVO on 32 OTA, but not CBEFT.
During the analog era, a sister of mine who lives in Clinton in Lenawee County very regularly got a viewable signal of CBEFT with an outdoor antenna, along with almost everything from Detroit, Windsor, Toledo and Lansing, plus the VHF signals from Cleveland.
ChrisWL1980 wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:55 pm
Even CHBX 2 does not appear to have even been carried on the Sault MI system.
Interestingly, it was, and maybe still is, carried on cable in St. Ignace and Mackinaw City.
ChrisWL1980 wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:55 pm
According to old listings from the '80s, not even WGTQ 8 was carried on cable in either of the Twin Saults, with systems in both cities opting for WJRT from Flint instead.
On the American side, I would think they would eventually have WGTQ on cable, especially by the time must-carry rules kicked in in the 1990s.

In Canada, Shaw never carried WGTQ, but opted to carry WJRT for ABC. They would replace it with WXYZ sometime in the 2000s.

Pre-emptions and quality of programming and operations might have kept WGTQ off cable in the region for years.
ChrisWL1980 wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:55 pm
I wonder what other cable systems in the Detroit metro carried ... the SIN/Univision translator on channel 66.
As they were a LPTV, very few systems, if at all, carried them, as LPTVs weren't subject to the same carriage regulations as regular-licensed stations.
ChrisWL1980 wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:55 pm
I know some cable systems in New England used to carry SRC stations out of Montreal and Sherbrooke, but that was probably for the benefit of Quebecers who would visit the area to ski and could keep up on programs/info from home.
Here in Maine, CKSH (and TVA outlet CHLT) were temporarily taken off of Spectrum's Central Maine systems around Labor Day 2020 -- reasoning was unknown, though I suspect that its target audience was unable to cross the border due to COVID regulations, and Spectrum didn't want to spend money carrying stations no one would watch (besides me :P ). Don't know if they readded them, as we downgraded cable packages since then. On a side note, TV5Monde, the international Francophone channel, was and still is, part of standard cable in Maine (except for my package).
My "setup" at that time was just an old 1970s-era color TV (don't remember the brand name) with nothing more than rabbit ears. WFUM 28 was what passed for "DX" reception on that set (from central Macomb County). No wonder I enjoyed fiddling with the outdoor antenna at my grandparents'. LOL

According to the '82 Broadcasting Yearbook, CKCY 2 (it became CHBX in 1985) was carried on cable as far south as Rogers City (as was CJIC 5). I could watch both over the air with varying degrees of success when visiting family near Gaylord, but they were prone to co-channel interference from WJBK and WNEM during the summer. Sometimes CTV Sudbury's Elliot Lake repeater on channel 3 would pop in too (it was actually carried on cable in Rogers City circa 1980, according to that year's Broadcasting Yearbook).



Marcus
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Re: Old Cable TV Line ups(New thread)

Post by Marcus » Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:37 pm

I looked at the Sarnia guides from 1983 and 1984. I know that there were a couple of premium channels you paid extra for because we had them for a few months. They were First Choice and Superchannel at the start. After that a music video channel, a Sports channel, and TNN were added to the lineup. Before that you had the standard broadcast channels that an antenna could receive and that Community TV Six that most people ignored. Despite the limitations of cable during the early years, many homes subscribed to it in our area.



ftballfan
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Re: Old Cable TV Line ups(New thread)

Post by ftballfan » Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:00 pm

Shaw in Sault Ste. Marie never carried WGTU/WGTQ, but oddly Sudbury did get WGTQ on cable for years. Speaking of northern Ontario, WGTQ and WWUP were carried in a good portion of northeastern Ontario and maybe even into northwestern Quebec. WTOM had some Canadian cable carriage, mostly in the shore towns along Hwy 17.

I think I saw a TV Guide somewhere that had Fox 33 carried in Sault Ontario around the 2000-2002 timeframe.



ftballfan
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Re: Old Cable TV Line ups(New thread)

Post by ftballfan » Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:03 pm

ftballfan wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:00 pm
Shaw in Sault Ste. Marie never carried WGTU/WGTQ, but oddly Sudbury did get WGTQ on cable for years. Speaking of northern Ontario, WGTQ and WWUP were carried in a good portion of northeastern Ontario and maybe even into northwestern Quebec. WTOM had some Canadian cable carriage, mostly in the shore towns along Hwy 17.

I think I saw a TV Guide somewhere that had Fox 33 carried in Sault Ontario around the 2000-2002 timeframe.
https://www.vintagetvguide.ca/images/tv ... uide-1.jpg
https://www.vintagetvguide.ca/images/tv ... uide-2.jpg

Notice Fox 33 was carried in Sault Ste. Marie at this point (Sault Ontario did carry WKBD before 1995)



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rugratsonline
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Re: Old Cable TV Line ups(New thread)

Post by rugratsonline » Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:39 pm

ChrisWL1980 wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:15 am
According to the '82 Broadcasting Yearbook, CKCY 2 (it became CHBX in 1985) was carried on cable as far south as Rogers City (as was CJIC 5). I could watch both over the air with varying degrees of success when visiting family near Gaylord, but they were prone to co-channel interference from WJBK and WNEM during the summer.
Did you get any interference from the Green Bay stations (WBAY 2 and WFRV 5)?
ftballfan wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:00 pm
Speaking of northern Ontario, WGTQ and WWUP were carried in a good portion of northeastern Ontario and maybe even into northwestern Quebec.
Both were carried on cable television in Rouyn-Noranda and Val d'Or. They would be both replaced by their Boston equivalents -- WCVB and WBZ -- when the Boston stations became available via satellite.
ftballfan wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:03 pm
Notice Fox 33 was carried in Sault Ste. Marie at this point (Sault Ontario did carry WKBD before 1995)
With the 1995 affiliate switch, many cable systems in Mid-Michigan and The Thumb also had WKBD replaced with WGKI, as the microwave network made the switch to ensure the UP systems (especially the Central and Western UP) still had access to Fox, prior to the sign-on of Marquette's WMQF (WZMQ) in 2003. As a consequence, for downstate systems, this resulted in more blackouts, not only due to Fox, but also due to syndex, as most of what WGKI carries was also syndex-protected by the local stations. By 1997, some systems managed to bring back WKBD as a replacement of WGKI.



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rugratsonline
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Re: Old Cable TV Line ups(New thread)

Post by rugratsonline » Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:51 pm

Marcus wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:37 pm
I looked at the Sarnia guides from 1983 and 1984. I know that there were a couple of premium channels you paid extra for because we had them for a few months. They were First Choice and Superchannel at the start. After that a music video channel, a Sports channel, and TNN were added to the lineup.
The "music video channel" is Much Music, which became wildly popular among those with cable. Alas, just like MTV, Much is now practically just a shadow of themselves, showing practically anything that owner Bell Media (the folks who own CTV) has the rights to.

Canada also since got their own MTV, but just like the US original, the "music" is all but absent. Bell Media owns them, too.

The "sports channel" is TSN, which ESPN owns a minority stake of. (Guess who owns most of it?)
Marcus wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:37 pm
Before that you had the standard broadcast channels that an antenna could receive and that Community TV Six that most people ignored. Despite the limitations of cable during the early years, many homes subscribed to it in our area.
In 1999, I stayed overnight at a motel near Sarnia, on a road trip from Michigan to Toronto -- it was an old school motel, with not even a phone in the room. The TV was aerial only, but not only you got local stations from Sarnia and London, you also got Detroit / Windsor and Toledo channels, as well as WNEM from Bay City. (I don't think I got WDCP (WDCQ) Bad Axe or the other Flint / Tri Cities channels.)



ChrisWL1980
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Re: Old Cable TV Line ups(New thread)

Post by ChrisWL1980 » Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:21 pm

rugratsonline wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:39 pm
ChrisWL1980 wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:15 am
According to the '82 Broadcasting Yearbook, CKCY 2 (it became CHBX in 1985) was carried on cable as far south as Rogers City (as was CJIC 5). I could watch both over the air with varying degrees of success when visiting family near Gaylord, but they were prone to co-channel interference from WJBK and WNEM during the summer.
Did you get any interference from the Green Bay stations (WBAY 2 and WFRV 5)?
ftballfan wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:00 pm
Speaking of northern Ontario, WGTQ and WWUP were carried in a good portion of northeastern Ontario and maybe even into northwestern Quebec.
Both were carried on cable television in Rouyn-Noranda and Val d'Or. They would be both replaced by their Boston equivalents -- WCVB and WBZ -- when the Boston stations became available via satellite.
ftballfan wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:03 pm
Notice Fox 33 was carried in Sault Ste. Marie at this point (Sault Ontario did carry WKBD before 1995)
With the 1995 affiliate switch, many cable systems in Mid-Michigan and The Thumb also had WKBD replaced with WGKI, as the microwave network made the switch to ensure the UP systems (especially the Central and Western UP) still had access to Fox, prior to the sign-on of Marquette's WMQF (WZMQ) in 2003. As a consequence, for downstate systems, this resulted in more blackouts, not only due to Fox, but also due to syndex, as most of what WGKI carries was also syndex-protected by the local stations. By 1997, some systems managed to bring back WKBD as a replacement of WGKI.
I don't remember ever getting interference from Green Bay stations, although I did get WJMN 3 on occasion though WWMT and CICI (the OTA Elliot Lake repeater) were more frequently seen. WLUC 6 was typically a no-go with WCML in the way.

Apparently WJBK and WDIV were carried in Val d'Or in the late '80s, although the local Anglo weekly (The Val d'Or Star), if the listings in the Google Newspaper Archive are any indication, never bothered to update their TV listings for "Detroit 4" and "Detroit 6" (assuming 6 was WJBK's cable channel) after 1986. You'd still be browsing the listings in a 1989 issue and see mentions of "Tigers '86" on channel 4. Eventually they stopped listing the Detroit stations altogether. (A curious omission in that era was CBMT, although they had a repeater in Malartic which covered Val d'Or - essentially giving the area two CBC affiliates with the other being the Kirkland Lake/Tri-Towns repeater of MCTV-CBC on channel 2.)

Farther west into northwestern Ontario, a look through the Broadcasting Yearbooks shows WLUC and WJMN carried in a number of the Lake Superior shoreline communities such as Marathon and Nipigon in addition to CBLT Toronto operating repeaters in some of those communities. Thunder Bay, however, got Duluth stations on cable until the advent of Cancom when they were replaced with Detroit stations (farther west, toward the Manitoba border, some systems carried the same North Dakota stations then available in Winnipeg). I saw a clip of a WDSE 8 (PBS Duluth) pledge drive from 1984 on YouTube not long ago and they mentioned having many Thunder Bay viewers; they can't have been happy when the switch to WTVS on Thunder Bay cable systems essentially cut off that source of revenue.

WEYI 25 was apparently carried on cable in Port Huron as late as 1979-80, though it was gone by '82, replaced by ESPN. This was the lineup on Harron Cable circa 1981-82:

2 - WJBK CBS 2 Detroit
3 - WKBD IND 50 Detroit
4 - WDIV NBC 4 Detroit
5 - CKCO CTV 42 Sarnia
6 - WTBS Atlanta
7 - WXYZ ABC 7 Detroit
8 - WGPR IND 62 Detroit
9 - CBET CBC 9 Windsor
10 - ESPN
11 - WTVS PBS 56 Detroit
12 - WGN Chicago
13 - CKGN Global 29 Sarnia
I (converter channel) - HBO

For comparison, this was MacLean-Hunter in Sarnia in that same time frame:
2 - TV Ontario (OTA ch 59 from Chatham)
3 - Global
4 - WDIV
5 - WKBD
7 - WXYZ
8 - CBLFT SRC 68 Sarnia
9 - CBET
10 - CFPL CBC 10 London
11 - WJBK
12 - WTVS
13 - CKCO
Converter Channels:
D - CHCH IND 11 Hamilton
E - WGPR
F - WXON IND 20 Detroit
I - Broadcast News



ChrisWL1980
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Re: Old Cable TV Line ups(New thread)

Post by ChrisWL1980 » Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:27 pm

I know any viewer anywhere on earth with a satellite dish could watch HBO for free until they started encrypting about 1985 or early '86. However, I find it curious that The Windsor Star, despite the availability of similar domestic services like First Choice and Superchannel, still carried listings for HBO as late as 1984. I wonder how Windsorites were able to watch HBO since I find it hard to believe that enough of them had satellite dishes to warrant including its schedules in the major daily newspaper. The Bluenoser site seems to suggest that there were some cable systems elsewhere in Canada that essentially pirated the HBO signal, and I'm wondering if that might have happened in Windsor as well.



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mtburb
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Re: Old Cable TV Line ups(New thread)

Post by mtburb » Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:03 pm

Here's two incomplete lineups from 1994. Barden Cablevision in Detroit, as it was being sold to Comcast:
2 - WJBK (CBS 2 Detroit)
3 - VH1
4 - WDIV (NBC 4 Detroit)
5 - WKBD (Fox 50 Detroit)
6 - Local Origination
7 - WXYZ (ABC 7 Detroit)
8 - USA
9 - ESPN
10 - Prevue Channel
11 - CNN
12 - WTBS (Independent 17 Atlanta)
13 - WGN (Independent 9 Chicago)
14 - Local Information Channel
15 - Photo Classified Ads
17 - The Family Channel
18 - E!
19 - HBO
20 - WXON (Independent 20 Detroit)
21 - Cinemax
22 - Showtime
23 - The Movie Channel
24 - The Disney Channel
25 - PASS
26 - ValueVision
27 - TNT
28 - AMC
29 - Sneak Prevue
30 - Viewer's Choice
31 - Hot Choice
32 - The Weather Channel
33 - A&E
34 - CNN Headline News
35 - CNBC
36 - Action Pay-Per-View
37 - QVC
40 - HSN
41 - The Box
42 - Lifetime
43 - MTV
44 - TNN
45 - The Discovery Channel
46 - Nickelodeon
47 - TLC
51 - Sci-Fi Channel
54 - Univision
55 - Travel Channel
56 - WTVS (PBS 56 Detroit)
57 - CBET (CBC 9 Windsor)
58 - C-SPAN
59 - WADL (Independent 38 Mount Clemens)
60 - Local Access
62 - WGPR (Independent 62 Detroit)
64 - W48AV (HSN 48 Saint Clair Shores)
65 - C-SPAN2
67 - Public Access
68 - TBN (national feed)
69 - The Inspirational Network
70 - HGTV
71 - Government Access
72 - Mind Extension University
75 - Educational Access
77 - College Access
78 - The Working Channel

And directly across the river, Trillium Cable in Windsor:
2 - CICO (TVOntario 32 Windsor)
3 - CIII (Global 22 Stevenson)
5 - WDIV (NBC 4 Detroit)
6 - CHWI (Independent 16 Wheatley)
7 - WJBK (CBS 2 Detroit)
8 - WXYZ (ABC 7 Detroit)
10 - CBET (CBC 9 Windsor)
11 - Local Access
12 - CBEFT (SRC 54 Windsor)
13 - CKCO (CTV 42 Sarnia)
14 - MuchMusic
15 - CNN
16 - TSN
17 - A&E
18 - TNN
21 - Family Channel (unrelated to the US Family Channel)
22 - The Movie Network
26 - CFMT (Independent 47 Toronto)
27 - CITY (Independent 57 Toronto)
28 - YTV
29 - CBC Newsworld
31 - Vision TV
32 - WXON (Independent 20 Detroit)
33 - WKBD (Fox 50 Detroit)
34 - WTVS (PBS 56 Detroit)
38 - TCTV
39 - WGTE (PBS 30 Toledo)
43 - WNWO (ABC 24 Toledo)
44 - WTVG (NBC 13 Toledo)
45 - WTOL (CBS 11 Toledo)
46 - WTBS (Independent 17 Atlanta) (the Atlanta feed of WTBS was carried in Canada at the time)
47 - WGN (Independent 9 Chicago) (the Chicago feed of WGN was [and still is] carried in Canada at the time)
49 - KTLA (Independent 5 Los Angeles)
54 - CHCH (Independent 11 Hamilton)
55 - WGPR (Independent 62 Detroit)


My furthest DTV tropo: KDKA Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania at 202 miles for three days in January 2017 and a night in September 2017 with only an Antennas Direct C2V!

Current setup: Antennas Direct C2Max (2018-present)

Marcus
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Re: Old Cable TV Line ups(New thread)

Post by Marcus » Tue Oct 25, 2022 1:32 pm

Broadcast News on the Sarnia system was news headlines typed on screen. They scrolled up as you read them. Community TV 6 often just had an on screen bulletin board . I think most of the Community programming was seen of weekdays late in the afternoon, and early in the evening.

Up until the mid 1980's CHCH-TV had a useless signal on our system because they did start using a microwave relay to bring in a reliable signal before that time. It proved that even cable systems did not have a true"130 Mile range antenna", and neither did consumers. (still holds true today)

That left you with the channels you could get with a rotary antenna in many instances. Channel 9 and 62 were usually snowy without cable, and 56 often wasn't the clearest either. Getting cable was more about taking a TV tower down as Sarnia is has always been over 50 miles from a majority of the TV broadcasts you could get, so a simple setup would do.

Windsor was a different story. I understand that cable TV didn't start there until around the time that the old First Choice and Superchannel were launched on Canadian Cable (1983). It was easy to tune in 9 English channels and one French channel with a Suburban range antenna, costing much less than what viewers in Sarnia used for O.T.A. TV. Many Canadian viewers also used "pirate" decoders to watch the old ONTV when WXON TV 20 aired that service. Movies made up a good portion of that programming.



ChrisWL1980
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Re: Old Cable TV Line ups(New thread)

Post by ChrisWL1980 » Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:52 pm

It took a very long time for many major cities to get cable, which allowed many of those OTA pay-TV services to become fairly popular in some major cities. Chicago's ON-TV affiliate, WSNS, actually appears to have had a fairly wide cable footprint which included much of Michiana and West Michigan as far away as Grand Rapids. Manhattan was the only NYC borough with cable service for decades. It appears, based on the Vintage TV Guide site, Windsor may not have gotten cable until the second round of Canadian pay TV channels (MuchMusic, TSN, etc.) was licensed in the fall of 1984.
Other major Canadian cities farther from the border, though, had cable as early as the late '60s, because the populace wanted clear reception of U.S. stations, which Windsor, being right on the border, obviously already had. I've read Toronto had it as early as 1970 and Winnipeg was wired in 1968. Leamington got cable in 1969. The Vintage TV Guide site actually lists a pair of cable lineups for London that date to 1965 (basically they included CBS, NBC and ABC from both Detroit and Cleveland and NBC from Erie as well as CFPL, CKCO and CHCH and one community channel).



Marcus
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Re: Old Cable TV Line ups(New thread)

Post by Marcus » Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:49 pm

Over the years London switched over from Cleveland network affiliates to the ones from Erie, but were allowed to keep the three Detroit affiliates. WUAB from Cleveland was on the two cable systems, and the one PBS member station to be carried there was WQLN-TV from Erie.

In Windsor if you decided to get cable back then (and many people didn't) a cable ready TV with a CATV mode or an external selector box known as a converter was a must. You were wasting your money if you couldn't tune past Cable 13. Channels two, four, seven, and nine caused this situation.



organman95
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Re: Old Cable TV Line ups(New thread)

Post by organman95 » Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:48 pm

ftballfan wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:01 pm
Cable Michigan Manistee, MI (late 1990s)

2 - Local Access
3 - WGKI (FOX 33 Cadillac)
4 - WPBN (NBC 7 Traverse City)
5 - TBS SuperStation
6 - WCMW (PBS 21 Manistee)
7 - Prevue/TV Guide Channel
8 - WGTU (ABC 29 Traverse City)
9 - QVC
10 - WWTV (CBS 9 Cadillac)
11 - Real Estate Showcase
12 - Superstation WGN (WB)
13 - Toon Disney
14 - TLC
15 - ESPN
16 - Disney Channel
17 - Lifetime
18 - VH1
19 - TBN
20 - USA
21 - E!
22 - Sneak Prevue
23 - A&E
24 - MTV
25 - TNN
26 - Nickelodeon
27 - Weather Channel
28 - Comedy Central
29 - Animal Planet (I think C-SPAN was here before Animal Planet came on)
30 - Headline News
31 - ESPN2
32 - AMC
33 - CNN
34 - Discovery Channel
35 - PASS -> Fox Sports Detroit
36 - TNT
37 - CNBC
38 - HGTV
39 - Pay-Per-View
40 - Pay-Per-View
41 - Showtime
42 - Starz!
43 - Encore
44 - HBO2
45 - HBO
46 - Cinemax
47 - Cinemax 2
48 - History Channel
49 - Fox News Channel
50 - Cartoon Network
51 - TCM
52 - FX
53 - MSNBC
54 - Sci-Fi Channel
55 - Food Network
56 - CMT (in the mid-90s, it shared 35 with PASS)
95 - Adult Pay-Per-View
96 - C-SPAN 2
97 - C-SPAN
98 - Court TV (replaced with OLN in late 1990s; Court TV would return in 2002)
99 - Family Channel
That must have been shortly before Charter and the "Regional Headend" or whatever you want to call it being based in Traverse City. Part of that lineup is identical to the TC lineup at the time.

Funny thing, the systems that carried WTOM would have it on 7 with Prevue on 4. But WPBN was on 4 and Prevue on 7.

And to the Canadian channels carried on cable systems... TCI in Cheboygan (I believe Mackinaw City had a similar lineup) had CJIC on 5 and CBET on 9. If I recall, Bresnan dropped CJIC and moved TBS to 5 (from 35) in the late 90s



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rugratsonline
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Re: Old Cable TV Line ups(New thread)

Post by rugratsonline » Thu Nov 03, 2022 11:36 pm

organman95 wrote:
Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:48 pm
And to the Canadian channels carried on cable systems... TCI in Cheboygan (I believe Mackinaw City had a similar lineup) had CJIC on 5 and CBET on 9.
And BOTH were CBC outlets.

That being said, surprised that CBET was still carried on cable north of Flint by the 1990s, as many systems would offer CBMT from Montreal instead.



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