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FM Transmitter Range

Topics of general interest that just don't fit anywhere else.
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Ben Zonia
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by Ben Zonia » Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:06 pm

100 mW from 10 meters AGL would put a 70 dBu City Grade Signal over a circular area of 381.5 acres. I can't imagine anyone who just wants to listen on his property would need any more than that, even a modest sized farm, but it's still illegal.

1 mW from 10 meters AGL would put a 70 dBu City Grade Signal over a circular area of 3.816 acres. It goes out 230 feet. But it's still illegal.

But the lower the power, the less likely to get in trouble.

Forget about 1000 watts, unless you own as much land as a sultan. But then, you could afford to have a legal licensed station there in the Middle East.


"I had a job for a while as an announcer at WWV but I finally quit, because I couldn't stand the hours."

-Author Unknown

Deleted User 15905

Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by Deleted User 15905 » Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:33 pm

Ben Zonia wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:06 pm
100 mW from 10 meters AGL would put a 70 dBu City Grade Signal over a circular area of 381.5 acres. I can't imagine anyone who just wants to listen on his property would need any more than that, even a modest sized farm, but it's still illegal.

1 mW from 10 meters AGL would put a 70 dBu City Grade Signal over a circular area of 3.816 acres. It goes out 230 feet. But it's still illegal.

But the lower the power, the less likely to get in trouble.

Forget about 1000 watts, unless you own as much land as a sultan. But then, you could afford to have a legal licensed station there in the Middle East.
The Dude wants to have fun with his own radio station out in the country. Nothing wrong with that, being an ex-pirate, I honestly know the fun and excitement it is to hear something that you created, your own radio station and your own programming. If I had the money and the land in the middle of nowhere, I would jump at the chance to do pirating again. I say for him to go for it, legal or illegal. Just be cautious and don’t set a broadcast schedule.



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TC Talks
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by TC Talks » Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:50 pm

Ben seems to think there is enforcement. I suppose some engineers can jump up and down and throw a fit that the rules aren't being followed but there doesn't seem to be much of an appetite within the FCC to spend time or energy on things like this anymore. The bigger reality is that there is no one there to listen anymore. And any commercial station or Jesus station is just piping in canned content from someplace else.


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

Deleted User 15905

Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by Deleted User 15905 » Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:58 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:54 am
Hey Ben,

Have you ever heard of all these horrible things happening? Quit lying to the guy...

I say go for it. The FCC has a very limited enforcement budget and there are bigger fish to fry than something like this. And don't worry about local broadcasters, they usually employ contract engineers, and aren't going to spend the money to try to find you. The trick will be building an antenna that really maximizes the 1000 watts.

Heck, you could run it on solar and connect to it Bluetooth. If you mounted to a tree on state land and connected wirelessly, it would be impossible to prove whose device it is. We used to run transmitters like this with solar all the time when I ran a community translator association out West.

Image
Be careful this Hot Girl is a FCC Field Agent. She’s giving Ben the thumbs up.👍



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TC Talks
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by TC Talks » Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:13 pm

Ben's actually a talented engineer and not a bad guy, he's just stuck in the past. The FCC used to be very good at accountability. These days the FCC is more interested in band allocation for Wi-Fi and cellular service. Broadcast isn't a priority like it used to be and therefore the funding as shifted as well.

I am of the belief that the airwaves are the property of the American people and they should have free reign to open allotments. What really kills me is that some of these guys who try to protect their frequencies as if it's their own property like behaving as if they're libertarian.

There is no enforcement and nobody cares light that puppy up, just get a good antenna.


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

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Ben Zonia
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by Ben Zonia » Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:14 pm

drew10219 wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:34 pm

I have a cottage in a small town where nobody really cares about what people are doing
it would be nice to transmit on my 5 acre property. if it goes farther than that should I really be worried?

I've been looking at something like this
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BKKMTPBF/?c ... _lig_dp_it
This is what the original poster said. He said he just wanted to be able to use his unlicensed station on his 5 acre property. If 10 milliwatts would do it, why would he need 1000 watts?

There has always been a principle of broadcast engineering and even amateur radio that you should only use the amount of power needed to serve the purpose. There were station engineer/owners who believed and practiced this, often to a fault.

Maybe there should be an intermediate power level license, or where it is legally treated by a slap on the wrist. But look at what happened to CB Radio.


"I had a job for a while as an announcer at WWV but I finally quit, because I couldn't stand the hours."

-Author Unknown

Deleted User 15905

Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by Deleted User 15905 » Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:37 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:13 pm
Ben's actually a talented engineer and not a bad guy, he's just stuck in the past. The FCC used to be very good at accountability. These days the FCC is more interested in band allocation for Wi-Fi and cellular service. Broadcast isn't a priority like it used to be and therefore the funding as shifted as well.

I am of the belief that the airwaves are the property of the American people and they should have free reign to open allotments. What really kills me is that some of these guys who try to protect their frequencies as if it's their own property like behaving as if they're libertarian.

There is no enforcement and nobody cares light that puppy up, just get a good antenna.
I agree, Today you don’t need to build a library of music, all you have to do is get all your music or podcast downloads from your smartphone and connect your Bluetooth from your smartphone to the transmitter and like magic, you now have a radio station. It’s actually easier and cheaper to have a pirate station today, unlike 30 years ago when you had to build your library from CD’s and vinyl.



originalzzmfmjock
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by originalzzmfmjock » Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:09 pm

Guess I'll add my 2 cents worth.

First off, I don't think you really need to spend that kind of money or need that kind of power in what you are interested in doing. While the FCC doesn't do much enforcement anymore, I believe running 1,000 watts would get you a visit regardless of where you are transmitting from. You can find some really nice looking transmitters for sale on line or on ebay. A Ramsey FM transmitter would probably work real well for what you want to do. You can find them on ebay for around 300-400 dollars and they work quite good and are very reliable. A friend of mine has the FM100B and has been running it on the air everyday since 2001. There are also several Chinese made transmitters available on line, but buyer beware, they sometimes drift quite a bit, are known to have spurious signals and have known to be combustible from time to time. Other than that they look nice.

I have heard several pirates operating in West Michigan the past several years. There is one in the Jenison area that runs quite a bit of power and covers several miles. I also know of another one in West Michigan that has been running 24/7/365 for over 20 years with no enforcement action. If you keep the power quite low, and don't try to enhance the signal too much with your antenna, you should be fine.

I've known a couple of people through the years who have been visited by the FCC, but all of those happened in the 60's or 70's. In none of the cases did the FCC take their transmitter or other equipment, just issued them a NUO (notice of unlicensed operation) told them not to do it again and that was it. No fines, no jail time, no executions. The FCC has just too many other things on their plates to worry about extremely low power radio stations. The last pirate to get busted in the West Michigan area was someone running high power on 103.7 and using extreme vulgarity on the air. That was in 2016 I believe. Unfortunately a couple of years later the same guy set up a station at another location. He was using one of those cheap Chinese transmitters and burned his house down.

Hope this helps. If you put a 1 or 2 watt station on the air in the sticks, you should be ok. Just not 1,000 watts.



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Ben Zonia
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by Ben Zonia » Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:24 am

Here is the FCC Rule:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/15.209

Basically, the comments online that I have read have the same range of responses as this thread.

Basically, the risk of being discovered is directly proportional to the power level. General consensus is that 1000 watts is way too risky. 100 mW is quite illegal, but much less likely to be discovered. 100 mW would serve 5 acres quite well, if that's your real intent.


"I had a job for a while as an announcer at WWV but I finally quit, because I couldn't stand the hours."

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Rich F.
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by Rich F. » Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:10 am

Out of curiosity I Googled "FCC NOUO," and it led to the text below with an FCC action issued just 11 days ago (November 18, 2022).

Not only is the FCC still active against the actual operators making unlicensed use of the FM broadcast band, they are pursuing the owner(s)of the property it operates from, if that property is not owned by the operators themselves.
-------------------------
FCC QUOTE:

November 18, 2022

BY UPS AND FIRST-CLASS MAIL

Netta Bridgeman
Christopher Primus
Brooklyn, New York 11233-5109

NOTICE OF ILLEGAL PIRATE RADIO BROADCASTING

Case Number: EB-FIELDNER-20-00031283

The New York Office of the Federal Communications Commission’s (FCC) Enforcement Bureau is investigating a complaint about an unlicensed FM broadcast station operating on frequency 105.5 MHz. On September 15, 2022, agents from the New York Office confirmed by direction finding techniques that radio signals on frequency 105.5 MHz were emanating from the property at 1421 Pitkin Avenue, Brooklyn, New York 11233 (Property). Publicly available records identify Netta Bridgeman and Christopher Primus as the owners of the Property. NYC Department of Finance's Property Tax Public Access, https://a836-pts-access.nyc.gov/CARE/fo ... t/home.htm (last visited Nov. 4, 2022). The FCC’s records show no license issued for operation of a radio broadcast station on 105.5 MHz at this location.

Radio broadcast stations operating on certain frequencies, 47 CFR § 73.201 including 105.5 MHz, must be licensed by the FCC pursuant to the Communications Act of 1934, as amended (Act). While the FCC’s rules create exceptions for certain extremely low-powered devices, our agents have determined that those exceptions do not apply to the transmissions they observed originating from the Property. Accordingly, the station operating on the Property may be violating the Act. See, e.g., 47 U.S.C. § 511.

Under section 511(a) of the Act, persons or entities found to willfully and knowingly suffer (i.e., permit) a third party to engage in so-called “pirate radio” broadcasting on their property can face significant financial penalties. 47 U.S.C. § 511(a).

Accordingly, you are hereby notified and warned that the FCC may issue a fine of up to $2,149,551 if, following the response period set forth below, we determine that you have continued to permit any individual or entity to engage in pirate radio broadcasting from the property that you own or manage. Amendment of Section 1.80(b) of the Commission's Rules, Adjustment of Civil Monetary Penalties to Reflect Inflation, Order, DA 21-1631, 2021 WL 6135287, at *5 (EB Dec. 22, 2021); see also Annual Adjustment of Civil Monetary Penalties to Reflect Inflation, 87 Fed. Reg. 396 (Jan. 5, 2022) (setting January 5, 2022, as the effective date for the increases).

If you do not respond to this Notice, the FCC may nonetheless determine that, as a legal matter, you have sufficient knowledge of the above-referenced pirate radio activity to support enforcement action against you. Service of this Notice to you or your agent establishes the foundation, along with other evidence, that could lead to significant financial penalties.

You have ten (10) business days from the date of this Notice to respond by providing evidence that you are no longer permitting pirate radio broadcasting to occur at the Property. In addition, we request that you identify the individual(s) engaged in pirate radio broadcasting on the property that you own or manage. Your response should be sent to the address in the letterhead and reference the listed case number. Under the Privacy Act of 1974, 5 U.S.C. § 552a(e)(3).

We are informing you that the FCC’s staff will use all relevant material information before it to determine what, if any, enforcement action is required to ensure your compliance with the FCC’s rules. This will include any information that you disclose in your reply.

You may contact this office if you have any questions.

David C. Dombrowski
Regional Director, Region One
FCC Enforcement Bureau

Enclosures:
Excerpts from the Communications Act of 1934, As Amended
Enforcement Bureau, "Inspection Fact Sheet", March 2005



Rich F.
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by Rich F. » Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:22 am

For some perspective, below is a calculation of the horizontal distance (about 6.3 miles) that 1 kW of power radiated in the FM broadcast band from an antenna height of about 100 feet above the elevation of the average terrain in its coverage area can produce a signal strength of 1 mV/m (60 dBu).

This is a strong signal - easily received by almost any FM radio, even a "Walkman" type.

Image



Deleted User 15905

Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by Deleted User 15905 » Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:42 pm

I’m just curious as to how much radiation this 1000 watt transmitter radiates, is there a reason for concern to the exposure. It is coming from China, so does this unit comply with U.S. tech standards? Just wondering.



Circle Seven
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by Circle Seven » Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:26 am

A few posts up, Ben Zonia said 100 mW is quite illegal. Why do I think 300 mW is legal anywhere from DC to Daylight as long as it don't cause harmful interference?



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audiophile
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by audiophile » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:46 am

Deleted User 15905 wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:42 pm
I’m just curious as to how much radiation this 1000 watt transmitter radiates, is there a reason for concern to the exposure. It is coming from China, so does this unit comply with U.S. tech standards? Just wondering.
Who knows.

It states certification for low power device (part 15) BUT it's for a completely different model!


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

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TC Talks
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by TC Talks » Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:28 am

Let that be a lesson, don't broadcast in Brooklyn.

I see a lot of people trying to scare the rest of us but I would have to agree with circle 7 that it's just not an enforceable situation in rural areas.


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

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