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CKWW 580 Signal Observations
CKWW 580 Signal Observations
You use to be able to hear CKWW as far as Saginaw, even with 50000 watt WTCM on the air. Now people are having problems close by in Oakland and Macomb Counties. I'm curious what's going on. Does anyone know? If they are operating with a Canadian STA, say 125 watts nondirectional, it seems like places Northwest and Downriver, maybe Toledo, may be hearing it better than usual. Any observations in those areas? No one else on either side of the border covers their demographic well.
https://fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?ta ... 0&sHours=U
https://www.fccdata.org/?lang=en&facid= ... tabs=66935
125 watts nondirectional would exceed DA operation with 500 watts from about 85 to 330 degrees true, but only 1/5 the field strength in the maximum DA direction.
https://fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?ta ... 0&sHours=U
https://www.fccdata.org/?lang=en&facid= ... tabs=66935
125 watts nondirectional would exceed DA operation with 500 watts from about 85 to 330 degrees true, but only 1/5 the field strength in the maximum DA direction.
Last edited by Ben Zonia on Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"I had a job for a while as an announcer at WWV but I finally quit, because I couldn't stand the hours."
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- ZenithCKLW
- Posts: 847
- Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:21 am
- Location: Livonia, MI
Re: CKWW 580 Signal Observations
I listen to CKWW so often that I seem to have mentally drawn its pattern without needing to see a map.
CKWW seems to blast in to my location in SW Livonia much stronger than in past years. This didn’t always seem to be the case. Although, I could drive to north of east Livonia or northwest Livonia near 275 and 7 Mile and it’s weak. West Plymouth Twp amd Northville Twp seem even weaker. Livonia seems to be on a border of a null which seems to go northwest across Dearborn, Redford, Livonia, and Novi. You could drive across this “border” and notice a significant difference.
It blasts in at my cottage in Lexington on Lake Huron. It didn’t seem to come in great during a recent visit to Sterling State Park in Monroe, which seems fairly close to the transmitter.
CKWW seems to blast in to my location in SW Livonia much stronger than in past years. This didn’t always seem to be the case. Although, I could drive to north of east Livonia or northwest Livonia near 275 and 7 Mile and it’s weak. West Plymouth Twp amd Northville Twp seem even weaker. Livonia seems to be on a border of a null which seems to go northwest across Dearborn, Redford, Livonia, and Novi. You could drive across this “border” and notice a significant difference.
It blasts in at my cottage in Lexington on Lake Huron. It didn’t seem to come in great during a recent visit to Sterling State Park in Monroe, which seems fairly close to the transmitter.
Re: CKWW 580 Signal Observations
Zenith, have you been to Lexington recently? Because of the conductivity next to the rivers and lakes along the path, it still might come in OK. According to official conductivity, the R-L Map shows 2.5 mV/m near Lexington with 500 watts DA. 1/5 would still be 0.5 mV/m, and it would be more according to unofficial conductivity over Lake St. Clair. But in Saginaw, according to M-3, it would fall from 150 uV/m to just 30 uV/m, extreme DXer ground wave range.
Better in NW Livonia would correspond to the hypothetical STA 125 watts nondirectional operation.
Better in NW Livonia would correspond to the hypothetical STA 125 watts nondirectional operation.
"I had a job for a while as an announcer at WWV but I finally quit, because I couldn't stand the hours."
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- ZenithCKLW
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- Location: Livonia, MI
Re: CKWW 580 Signal Observations
I haven’t been there in a couple months. I’m not sure of actual measurements, but CKWW was loud there last year, although seemingly weaker than say 5-10 years ago.
Re: CKWW 580 Signal Observations
London ON in south west Ontario, just inside the purple line on the map, signal is good here during the day
A while ago, I took a trip up into one of the northern Lake Huron counties in Ontario, just about on the blue line on the map. Reception was pretty decent there too.
A while ago, I took a trip up into one of the northern Lake Huron counties in Ontario, just about on the blue line on the map. Reception was pretty decent there too.
I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.
Re: CKWW 580 Signal Observations
It booms into Port Huron usually. Still mediocre to garbage in Toledo and Ann Arbor.
- MWmetalhead
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Re: CKWW 580 Signal Observations
Faint signal here in Beverly Hills right now despite little to zero co-channel activity on 580. Reception is noticeably weaker than 800 CKLW. Both stations' audio levels are set far too low.
Bell Media's engineering standards are in the toilet. It is shameful.
Bell Media's engineering standards are in the toilet. It is shameful.
Morgan Wallen is a piece of garbage.
Re: CKWW 580 Signal Observations
There are places in the major lobe that were twice as strong as WRDT 560, now they're less than half of WRDT. So either their pattern is WAY out of whack, or they're on low power STA. And it's weak all over the major lobe arc, not just a certain direction, so I have to go with the latter. I really like the station, but now I would have to listen online, which is inconvenient in the car.
"I had a job for a while as an announcer at WWV but I finally quit, because I couldn't stand the hours."
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Re: CKWW 580 Signal Observations
I think they are undermodulating, and yeah, the pattern is probably out of whack, too.So either their pattern is WAY out of whack, or they're on low power STA.
Morgan Wallen is a piece of garbage.
Re: CKWW 580 Signal Observations
I just noticed that many databases now show CKWW as a CLASS C AM station. I never remember this before. I can't find anywhere where policy has changed in the US or Canada to have allowed a new Class C station on 580 kHz as late as 1964. Only very old grandfathered stations were allowed to be Class C on any Regional Channel. This shows both domestically and internationally as Class C. Class B stations can use 250 to 50000 watts Day and Night, so 500 watts Unlimited on 580 is clearly a Class B operation. Class C AM stations that are not grandfathered operate on Local Channels, 1230, 1240, 1340, 1400, 1450, or 1490. Maybe it's a mistake in the database.
"I had a job for a while as an announcer at WWV but I finally quit, because I couldn't stand the hours."
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Re: CKWW 580 Signal Observations
Seems like the Class C can operate with 1 kW full time nondirectional in the US. on 1230, 1240, 1340, 1400, 1450 and 1490.
Re: CKWW 580 Signal Observations
There are some 1930-1940 era stations that were Class IV on Regional Channels, but those are grandfathered if they still exist. Nothing as recent as 1964.
I'm trying to locate some old databases that show the Class. I think someone was confused because of the 500 watt power level.
"I had a job for a while as an announcer at WWV but I finally quit, because I couldn't stand the hours."
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- ZenithCKLW
- Posts: 847
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- Location: Livonia, MI
Re: CKWW 580 Signal Observations
I’m at our house in Lexington this weekend. I brought my GE Superadio II. With both the radio in my truck and the Superadio, CKWW comes in with lots of interference, although I can hear CKWW programming under it all. But this was only after about 7 or 8 PM tonight. I’ll check again tomorrow during the day. Maybe I’ll test out on the lake. Hopefully signal strength will be as strong as I remember.Ben Zonia wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:45 pmZenith, have you been to Lexington recently? Because of the conductivity next to the rivers and lakes along the path, it still might come in OK. According to official conductivity, the R-L Map shows 2.5 mV/m near Lexington with 500 watts DA. 1/5 would still be 0.5 mV/m, and it would be more according to unofficial conductivity over Lake St. Clair. But in Saginaw, according to M-3, it would fall from 150 uV/m to just 30 uV/m, extreme DXer ground wave range.
Better in NW Livonia would correspond to the hypothetical STA 125 watts nondirectional operation.
- ZenithCKLW
- Posts: 847
- Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:21 am
- Location: Livonia, MI
Re: CKWW 580 Signal Observations
Reporting back... CKWW isn't too strong up here during the day either. Crackly and weak.
But I've also noticed FM reception is crap here today. Usually I can take the radio on the beach and get all sorts of stuff across the lake, even as far as Toronto, Erie PA, or Owen Sound. I couldn't even get WTGV today, which is maybe only 20 miles away.
But I've also noticed FM reception is crap here today. Usually I can take the radio on the beach and get all sorts of stuff across the lake, even as far as Toronto, Erie PA, or Owen Sound. I couldn't even get WTGV today, which is maybe only 20 miles away.
Re: CKWW 580 Signal Observations
I was up in the Owen Sound area today. The XYL wasn't along so it gave me a good opportunity to play with the radio during the drive. FM reception was pretty unremarkable up that way too.ZenithCKLW wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 7:17 pmReporting back... CKWW isn't too strong up here during the day either. Crackly and weak.
But I've also noticed FM reception is crap here today. Usually I can take the radio on the beach and get all sorts of stuff across the lake, even as far as Toronto, Erie PA, or Owen Sound. I couldn't even get WTGV today, which is maybe only 20 miles away.
I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.