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Michigan Senate Guts Minimum Wage Hike

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ZenithCKLW
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Location: Livonia, MI

Re: Michigan Senate Guts Minimum Wage Hike

Post by ZenithCKLW » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:10 pm

I'm not on the left, but I don't mind raising minimum wage to keep up with inflation. The exact amount it is raised is debatable. Minimum wage has been raised several times since it was first introduced, and automation has crept in regardless of that. I think someone else here said if a company can't figure out how to conduct business while paying its workers a decent wage, it doesn't know how to manage costs and deserves to fail. I agree with that. Just as I agree with this example: if a marketing company conducts business but can't figure out how to pay to keep our data safe from hackers while conducting business, it shouldn't be conducting business. Both are costs that need to be managed. You'd think that people's wages are just as important.



Deleted User 14803

Re: Michigan Senate Guts Minimum Wage Hike

Post by Deleted User 14803 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:20 pm

I do agree with what your saying and yes the minimum should go up with reasonable increases but this $15. An hour is ridiculous that started in the inner cities across The USA from restaurant employees, in the long run they will ruin it for themselves.When the food employees were having demonstrations accross our great land last summer for the $15.an hour deal they were in inner cities not one fast food establishment in the burbs was on strike or demonstrating that I know of If they were they hid it very well because I do fast food every day and never walked in one that was on strike or demonstrating.



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ZenithCKLW
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Re: Michigan Senate Guts Minimum Wage Hike

Post by ZenithCKLW » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:50 pm

Then I guess we will only find out for sure after it happens, rather than theorizing. If minimum wage is increased that much, it mostly affects lower-wage jobs, such as at places like McDonald's. If it turns out that in-turn, McDonald's decides to raise prices on Big Macs because they can't figure out how to manage the higher cost of labor (which is no different than managing increased costs of beef, except that it's more controllable internally), then they will go out of business. Whose problem is that? Not yours, not mine. After that point, are you concerned about the increased price of your now non-existent Big Mac, or that the affected low-wage earners (who conservatives claim won't better themselves) have moved to Wendy's, where your Baconator is still the same price? We may pay more for the Big Mac up front at the beginning of the reactionary price increase, but if that increase really a problem for those customers, they won't eat there anymore, and if enough people don't eat there, they go under. That's the market, eh?

I just don't understand where all this fear of the poor comes from. I live a decently comfortable life, but I don't mind reasonably looking out for the poor and disadvantaged. Key word is reasonable. It's part of being compassionate to your neighbor, especially since if I personally hit hard times, I wouldn't want society to throw me off a cliff. Didn't the Lord teach that? This "fuck 'em, I got what I needed" attitude is scarier and transcends much more of society than some fast food workers making more money at the cost of the mismanaged company.

You "do fast food every day"? You saw the protests in the inner cities and not the suburbs because the poverty in the inner cities are very real, and they are fighting for survival, as any human would be expected to do. Every cent they make is much more valuable to them by proportion.

If you don't like the concept of low wage earners being given a raise paid by their mismanaged company, you can follow the advice you gave me and some others in another discussion: "if you don't like it, tune to a different station."



Deleted User 14803

Re: Michigan Senate Guts Minimum Wage Hike

Post by Deleted User 14803 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:50 pm

I do understand all your saying ,but let’s look at the business owner in the inner city at like a BK he owns a franchise ,first of all chances are Half of the profit goes to the corporation and he gets the other half he has to pay for all employees all utilities and basically everything else ,now if he has the opportunity to go automated ,in the long run to save a ton on overhead he sure as hell will and that of course is the wave of the future but because of $15 an hour wages the future will be sooner and a lot of people will indeed be out looking for work.



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ZenithCKLW
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Re: Michigan Senate Guts Minimum Wage Hike

Post by ZenithCKLW » Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:55 pm

I don't care where the business owner's profits come from or where they go. If the owner can't manage his business to the costs of doing business, the business is a failure. If he's a smart businessman, he can use the money saved from automation for better purposes. If he's not a smart businessman and can't do that, and blames the workers wages (slightly higher in comparison) as the reason for failure, I don't buy that for a second. None of that is justification for hiring workers to earn shitty wages just so he can make more in profits. People first. If that can't be done, he deserves to go out of business, as many businesses do for poor cost management. The rest is just a scare tactic talking point to either a.) keep poor people poor to keep the richer above the poor in comparison, or b.) to brainwash people to scare them to think that some awful thing is going to happen to them if someone else makes more money.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: Michigan Senate Guts Minimum Wage Hike

Post by MWmetalhead » Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:33 pm

We heard the same gloom-and-doom predictions when Obamacare and its associated business taxes went into effect.

Yes, some fast food prices were increased a small amount. Some hours were trimmed. McDonalds and other quick service and fast food chains still made money hand over fist. The stock market saw nice gains in 2016 after a flat 2015, employment rolls increased and unemployment declined.

The economy adjusted to Obamacare fairly quickly. Granted, the quality of care and cost were disappointing to many. But in terms of macroeconomic impact, the effect wasn't very noticeable after a while.

I do not support sharp rises in the minimum wage in one fell swoop (as those would indeed be harmful and inflationary), but if the economy (as it is here in Michigan) is already supporting $10 per hour wages and in many cases $11 per hour wages for menial unskilled jobs, I see no reason why the non-farm minimum wage needs to remain $9.25 per hour for adults.



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Turkeytop
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Re: Michigan Senate Guts Minimum Wage Hike

Post by Turkeytop » Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:23 pm

My Union represents workers in the security industry. These are notoriously low paying jobs. Ontario's minimum wage recently went from $11.60/hr to $14.00/hr. Now, security guards are leaving their jobs in droves. They're saying "why should I work these crappy hours in awful working conditions, when I can make just as much working at Walmart?"

The security firms are now coming to us asking to reopen the collective agreements to bargain wages up.


I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.

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Bryce
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Re: Michigan Senate Guts Minimum Wage Hike

Post by Bryce » Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:31 pm

My daughter works as a waitress while she finishes her final year (for now) at university. She figures if the tipped employee portion stays as it is, it will cost her at least 200.00 per week.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

Deleted User 8570

Re: Michigan Senate Guts Minimum Wage Hike

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:28 am

G G wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:41 am
If the babbys want to make better money, make them get off their obamaphones and facechat and look for real jobs. All they do is stem and have babbys that I have to pay for. That's okay. President Trump will put an end to all of that!
How exactly? He has 33 days left and it's not happening...

We have a lack of high skilled workers and a surplus of high skilled jobs, some folks can only find minimum wage jobs.. the whole thing is so tilted away from the vast majority of the country that it's like an upside down pyramid. Sooner or later the economy will suffer a major collapse... the longer the economy overheats the harder the fall... enjoy...



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