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CKWW

Discussion pertaining to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Port Huron, and SW Ontario
JGP1954
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:47 am
Location: Detroit Area

Re: CKWW

Post by JGP1954 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:43 pm

I don't know where AM580's tower is located. It's probably south of Windsor near the Detroit River. I live about two miles from the Detroit River. So, I doubt Traverse City, who's probably directional as hell, is being heard in Downriver Detroit. And, is so hard to believe that Family Life might buy time from Bell, so that they have a Detroit clearance? IHeart clears the overnight show on CKLW, CKWW clears their music shows, and their other Canadian stations clear U.S. national shows. These big syndicators need to have a Detroit clearance for national ad reasons, and their going to use the Windsor stations when they can't get a Detroit station. And, that's basically what Family Life radio is, a national programming producer.



fuzzpower
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Re: CKWW

Post by fuzzpower » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:03 pm

Yes, CKLW is the official Detroit outlet for Coast to Coast. They also air US based infomercials. CKWW however, has no non musical programming other than the required public affairs shows. They had a brokered investment show from Troy until fairly recently.

I have picked up WTCM over CKWW in the western suburbs. It’s not often, but does occur. The 580 you heard might not have been Traverse City, but it’s not CKWW. I am curious as to what it may have been.

CKWW’s tower, by the way, is in Amherstburg.



CK-722
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Re: CKWW

Post by CK-722 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:22 pm

I think it's a feature on another 580, possibly WTCM, that's like Focus On The Family. The WTCM minor lobe to the South is HUQE!

CKWW has a four tower in line endfire type array, oriented NNE. It has six nulls, and five minor lobes. It protects WKBN and WKZO in the Daytime, mainly. WTCM fit into the pattern when it moved to 580.


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innate-in-you
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Re: CKWW

Post by innate-in-you » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:32 am

Jeff Dugan wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:16 pm
Why in the world would Family Life need to have programming on CKWW when they have 4 translators in The Detroit Area, putting programming on a Canadian Station is silly when the translators run 24/7. Family Life would never buy time from anyone for programming if you have questions about this contact Family Life. I can tell you though Family Life would never buy time from any station, I have a contact in Family Life radio and here’s the name and telephone, Mike Brinks and the number is 800-733-1030.
They have four towers, northeast of Amherstburg, about 4 miles east of Wyandotte.

They have several nulls in every direction except NE. Due to their deep nulls and long wavelength, carrier suppression is a real problem downriver, where an ordinary radio will sound like what single-sideband sounds like on an ordinary CB radio.
In fact, the CKWW signal in its nulls is double sideband suppressed carrier.
When I had my HF rig in my car, I could listen to them clearly using USB mode.



JGP1954
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:47 am
Location: Detroit Area

Re: CKWW

Post by JGP1954 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:06 pm

That's right Amherstburg. I knew their tower was south of Windsor. I guess I'll have to listen to AM580 24 hours a day, to see who's right.



innate-in-you
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Re: CKWW

Post by innate-in-you » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:45 pm

Jeff Dugan wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:42 pm
fuzzpower wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:17 am
Would be nice if CKWW could move to the vacant 540 allotment and increase power.
When 540 was on-the-air that station had a terrible signal to the west as well it probably had a pattern similar to CKWW.
When 100% of your content is in French, that didn't matter.

Their transmitter plant was perfectly positioned and aligned to serve a gigantic area of Southwest Ontario.

I was in a motel room one night in 1970 or 1971. The only station that could be heard on it was CBEF.



CK-722
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Re: CKWW

Post by CK-722 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:47 pm

Once you get outside the major lobe, the Standard Pattern "ERP" based on 282 mV/m @ 1 km for 1 kW, is no higher than about 54 watts in the minor lobes, or less than about 11 watts in the nulls.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

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innate-in-you
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Re: CKWW

Post by innate-in-you » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:43 pm

Jeff Dugan wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:26 pm
So would 540 be better or worse or the same as 580 in the western portion of Detroit and beyond.
I'm thinking CBEF had it better all around. They had more power (2500d/5000n, vs. CKWW's 500u), and a better array (Taller towers of different heights).

They were both beamed NE.



CK-722
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Re: CKWW

Post by CK-722 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:27 pm

CBEF 540 minor lobes are as much as the equivalent of 81 watts, and the nulls as low as 11 watts. The major lobe maximum is around 36 degrees, which puts a larger arc of nulls toward the US than CKWW, which has a maximum at 26.5 degrees.

If the US and Canada could agree on a streamlining of remaining Canadian AM stations, both WRDT and CKWW and others might be able to have significant upgrades. Neither CKPR Thunder Bay nor CKAP Kapuskasing are on 580 anymore. There are no remaining AM stations in Thunder Bay. WTCM should be able to fill their null toward CKPR with their existing parallelogram. In some cases, both the US and Canada should allow full power directional FM allotments to be dropped in to replace AM stations where those stations limit the potential of AM upgrades. The fact that Canada is moving most of their AMs to directional FM allotments should be extended to allow Canadian companies to own three FMs in a market when it is done for border allotment realignment. No one listens to me anyway, so if you don't agree, don't worry. It probably won't happen anyway.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

RTN Price. Not guaranteed. As of 12:30, 157.71 Down 0.22.

Artificial Intelligence is a Child that needs a Parent to guide it through.

fuzzpower
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:37 pm

Re: CKWW

Post by fuzzpower » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:10 am

Very few Canadian AM stations are being reactivated. Toronto, Montreal, and maybe Vancouver are the only markets I can think of.

I doubt there are any plans that will change this.



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Calvert DeForest
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Location: The corner of US-16 and M-78

Re: CKWW

Post by Calvert DeForest » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:36 am

CHYR-AM 710 had a decent daytime signal into Lansing in the 70's and 80's. They switched frequencies to 730 at local sunset with reduced power. I could occasionally pick up the nighttime signal after WVIC-AM signed off, but it was barely listenable. Their format at the time was Top 40. Listened to them a lot as a teen and always thought they did a decent job with the format.


Shortwave is the ORIGINAL satellite radio.

innate-in-you
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:54 am

Re: CKWW

Post by innate-in-you » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:13 pm

JGP1954 wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:02 pm
Jeff Dugan wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:22 pm
Family Life radio would never be on a Canadian station, you may have heard a Family life station from another state on 580 I've been tuned to CKWW this morning and again this evening and they're still oldies.
No, my car radio was tuned to AM580 from the night before. It could have been some sort of feature. OR, CKWW was off the air for some short bit of time, and another distant station popped into the Detroit area. I listen to CKWW on a fairly regular basis. I work in Warren and drive on southbound I-75 through Detroit, and usually can hear CKWW, quite clearly.
Do you live near Heydenreich and Hall roads?
580+455=1035
WUFL is on 1030.
Many (used to be nearly all) AM receivers convert the signal to 455kHz and any further amplification is from that point.



CK-722
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Re: CKWW

Post by CK-722 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:14 pm

I don't think the CKWW signal is strong enough near the WUFL transmitter to mix in the receiver to do that. It sounds like the 580 is getting into the WUFL transmitter and mixing and being amplified and creating the 450 kHz signal. I should go over there with an LW receiver and check 450 kHz.

This phenomenon is frequently found on FM receivers where you have two tuned to the same station. The oscillator from one radio mixes with a strong nearby signal and you can hear it all over the dial. But it requires both signals to be quite strong.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

RTN Price. Not guaranteed. As of 12:30, 157.71 Down 0.22.

Artificial Intelligence is a Child that needs a Parent to guide it through.

innate-in-you
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:54 am

Re: CKWW

Post by innate-in-you » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:25 pm

CK-722 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:14 pm
I don't think the CKWW signal is strong enough near the WUFL transmitter to mix in the receiver to do that. It sounds like the 580 is getting into the WUFL transmitter and mixing and being amplified and creating the 450 kHz signal. I should go over there with an LW receiver and check 450 kHz.

This phenomenon is frequently found on FM receivers where you have two tuned to the same station. The oscillator from one radio mixes with a strong nearby signal and you can hear it all over the dial. But it requires both signals to be quite strong.
In retrospect, I believe that your observation is likely more plausible than mine.



kc8yqq
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:15 am

Re: CKWW

Post by kc8yqq » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:00 pm

CK-722 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:14 pm
This phenomenon is frequently found on FM receivers where you have two tuned to the same station. The oscillator from one radio mixes with a strong nearby signal and you can hear it all over the dial. But it requires both signals to be quite strong.
I've read about this where a neighbor in an apartment complex liked to play his stereo loud. The person that was annoyed had a stereo with a really strong oscillator and used it on his neighbor. This solved the problem. :lol:



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