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WKAR-AM to get translator

Discussion pertaining to Lansing, Jackson, Owosso, and all areas from Alma to Hillsdale
zoomer69
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Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:58 pm

Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by zoomer69 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:51 pm

LSJ is saying it's a replacement WDBM transmitter:

MSU’s The Impact gets new antenna
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/stor ... /82666136/

wsummers
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Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by wsummers » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:10 pm

On the air...getting heavily interferred with by WCEN here in DeWitt about 8 miles from MSU.

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MWmetalhead
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Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by MWmetalhead » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:19 pm

WCEN's coverage is protected by the FCC; all translator signals are given zero protection.

If this new station creates a lot of interference with WCEN in Clinton and Shiawassee Counties, it is very possible (assuming no backroom deal has been made) that WCEN will file a complaint with the FCC.

If I were the GM or CE of WCEN, that is precisely what I would do.

Leave it to Sparty to pick a MORONIC frequency to use!!!
Welcome back, Rock 95.5 Traverse City!!!

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SpartanAM
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Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by SpartanAM » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:16 pm

Stupid choice of frequency! WKAR engineering staff should be embarrassed.
She's got the tower... She's got the power...

ftballfan
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Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by ftballfan » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:59 pm

Off the top of my head, 105.1 would be a better frequency for this translator.

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SpartanAM
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Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by SpartanAM » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:07 pm

107.7 would have been good too.
She's got the tower... She's got the power...

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audiophile
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Location: Between 88 and 108 MHz.

Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by audiophile » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:23 pm

The translator is on the WKAR FM/TV tower.
Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

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SaveFerris
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Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by SaveFerris » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:26 pm

Whoever is responsible for the choice of frequency should be publicly shamed. Pirates wouldn't do such a thing. Any random idiot using radio-locator's vacant frequency search wouldn't make such a mistake. 94.5 isn't even listed under "Third Best." This needs to stop.

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SpartanAM
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Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by SpartanAM » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:42 pm

Should we be contacting MSU, the FCC, or both to complain about this?
She's got the tower... She's got the power...

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audiophile
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Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by audiophile » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:04 am

SpartanAM wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:16 pm
Stupid choice of frequency! WKAR engineering staff should be embarrassed.
I suspect this engineering mess was made by Carl Smith. Very poor choice.
Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

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Fingerboard Corners
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Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by Fingerboard Corners » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:17 am

Back when Section 73.215 was under consideration in the 1980s, which was a relatively modest proposal for slightly short spaced tower sites to use existing tower sites and optimize facilities, a commenter in the proceeding opposed it, saying it would result in "AMization" of the FM band. They were wrong about that. Big broadcasting owners have come around to routinely use and love Section 73.215. But now with all the other drop ins in the middle of nowhere caused by First Local Service and all the translators have now made the FM band a worse overcrowded mess than the AM band ever was. We need an expanded FM BCB and we need it, as The Donald might say, "bigly".

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MWmetalhead
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Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:31 am

Here is contact info for WCEN-FM / Alpha Media; one of their engineers will need to file a complaint with the FCC for any action to be taken here:

http://www.alphamediausa.com/contact/
http://www.945themoose.com/contact/

The FCC does not respond to interference complaints submitted by "civilians," so to speak.

MSU should've acted a LONG time ago to get an FM translator on the air (back when Family Life Radio, WWSJ, Spring Arbor and others were making their moves).

The best frequencies are already taken.

Instead, it looks like WKAR/MSU waited until the most recent filing window (i.e. the one where translators could be applied to be moved up to 250 miles from existing licensed or CP sites for purposes of rebroadcasting an AM station) to make any effort to gain a translator signal on the FM dial.

95.3 MHz and 99.9 MHz each provide awesome coverage of the greater Lansing area. One of those frequencies could've belonged to MSU had they not dragged their feet. 98.3 MHz or 104.7 MHz each would've worked very well from the Okemos Twp site, too.

Remember, we're talking non-commercial use here. Bearing that in mind, is there any reason why 90.1 MHz wouldn't have worked? Heck, it's right next door to WKAR-FM. Seems like that would've been an ideal spot.

Other possible options:
-98.7 MHz (if directional antenna is used to null out signal to the east-southeast)
-102.3 MHz (null toward WIOG)
-106.7 MHz (would require directional signal to null out signal toward Detroit)
-107.7 MHz (would require directional signal to null out signal toward southwest)

Arguably, 97.9 MHz could be included on the above list, too.

94.5 The Moose's signal used to come in loud & clear along I-69 from near the airport all the way through Shiawassee County. It's probably ripped to shreds along that same stretch of freeway now.
Welcome back, Rock 95.5 Traverse City!!!

wsummers
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Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:22 pm

Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by wsummers » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:00 pm

I just traveled along I-69 yesterday. WKAR 94.5 was listenable from the airport to around the Laingsburg exit, but the Moose was breaking in all along that corridor.

fairbankshockeypuck
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Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by fairbankshockeypuck » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:11 am

tvradiojunkie wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:45 pm
Now I just wish there was one for WJIM 1240, so I can hear the Tigers on FM.
Can you get 104.9 out of Alma/St Louis for the Tigers???

tvradiojunkie
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Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by tvradiojunkie » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:21 pm

fairbankshockeypuck wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:11 am
tvradiojunkie wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:45 pm
Now I just wish there was one for WJIM 1240, so I can hear the Tigers on FM.
Can you get 104.9 out of Alma/St Louis for the Tigers???
Moved to Jackson since that post, so I have 101.9 (WKHM-HD2) for that.

jry
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Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by jry » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:25 pm

[quote="Calvert DeForest" post_id=529311 time=1457789595 user_id=56]
I have no doubt the only reason 1580 is still on the air is because there's an FM simulcast covering Lansing. The AM has never fared well as a Lansing move-in, not that it was ever really meant to.

Even if someone bought it with the intention of refocusing on Clinton county, that ship has sailed. For all practical purposes, the translator should be located in St. Johns, but I don't think even that would do any good at this point. Too many years have passed, and re-establishing a presence in the community would be an uphill battle at best. It might be another story if the station had a consistent history here, but given the amount of money and effort that would need to be poured into both upgrading the physical plant and marketing a local product, I just don't see it being a feasible project for anyone to take on.
[/quote]

The Translator is being leased from K Love. It is part of the offering at 800K, BUT the buyer would have to make sure that it stays within the stations 2MV/M. Being that it is owned by the K, it can rebroadcast 1580 and not be under the 2....

MichiganPhil
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Location: East Lansing

Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by MichiganPhil » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:46 pm

If AM 870 has to sign off at sunset, does the translator have to sign off too?

This sounds like another useless station I won't be listening to.

Arthur Mometer
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Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by Arthur Mometer » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:43 pm

MichiganPhil wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:46 pm
If AM 870 has to sign off at sunset, does the translator have to sign off too?
No, it can stay on. Sometimes, an AM having a translator gives the station more format options, like music formats. AM formats have become limited by more limited de facto audio frequency response and quality, and more and more electrical noise, and interference from cochannel and adjacent signals, especially at night. Translators help, but even a 250 watt translator at 1000 feet won't solve all problems, and they create other problems like interference to stations on and near the translator frequency, limiting FM stations' effective service areas.
"I'm meteorologist Arthur Mometer."

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Calvert DeForest
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Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by Calvert DeForest » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:57 am

jry wrote:The Translator is being leased from K Love. It is part of the offering at 800K, BUT the buyer would have to make sure that it stays within the stations 2MV/M. Being that it is owned by the K, it can rebroadcast 1580 and not be under the 2....
Okay, now it's starting to make sense. I always wondered how they got around the 2MV/M limitation. The K-Love lease never dawned on me.

Here's what the FCC says about it:

An FM translator may rebroadcast an AM station only if the translator's 60 dBu service contour is within the SMALLER of (1) a 25 mile (40 km) radius circle from the AM station's transmitter site AND (2) the AM station's 2.0 mV/m contour. See 47 CFR Section 74.1201(g). This limitation applies to all applications being filed by AM licensees for FM translator stations in 2016 and 2017 as part of the AM Revitalization effort.

https://www.fcc.gov/media/radio/fm-tran ... rs#PROGRAM

You are correct, as a transfer of the FM translator license to the primary AM licensee would place it under the 2.0 mV/m coverage rule.

Then again, there may be just enough overlapping coverage in this case to make it legal as-is.
I'm not a partisan - I'm just here for the free doughnuts!

jry
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Re: WKAR-AM to get translator

Post by jry » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:39 pm

Overlapping coverage doesn't work. The translators 60 MUST be within the AMs 2. No getting around this.

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