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Belligerent Freedom of Speech: One of the best things about the USA

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Deleted User 9015

Belligerent Freedom of Speech: One of the best things about the USA

Post by Deleted User 9015 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:55 pm

In the wake of the Christchurch, New Zealand shooting, a website named the Kiwi Farms (which has nothing to do with New Zealand oddly enough) was one of the few places to offer an unedited copy of the livestream that the mass murderer did of the shooting. Since the shooting, the government of New Zealand has taken great actions to attempt to get the video offline. The government has deemed it censored material and possession comes with a 10 year prison sentence. They have blocked access to sites such as 4chan and 8chan which host the video. Kiwi Farms as well. The video is gruesome. You see dozens of muslims killed from the perspective of the shooter. Very horrifying. But it is raw video of a significant event. It is news in its rawest form. In response to websites hosting the video, a top law enforcement officer has been emailing websites hosting the video asking them to keep data such as user email and ip addresses. Many websites have agreed to comply. The owner of Kiwi Farms took a different approach. Below was the message from Det. Michael and the response by Joshua Conner Moon aka Null and a subsequent response from Det. Michael back to Null.
On 3/17/2019 6:12 AM, MICHAEL, John (JP) wrote:

Good afternoon

I am hoping that you can help us with an investigation the New Zealand Police are working on.

On 15 March 2019 there was a shooting in New Zealand with multiple fatalities at two mosques in the city of Christchurch.

The alleged offender in this matter is a Brenton TARRANT.

At around the time of the shooting there were a number of posts and links posted on kiwifarms.net <http://kiwifarms.net> relating to the shooting and TARRANT

We would like to preserve any posts and technical data including IP addresses, email addresses etc linked to these posts pending a formal legal request .

Could you please advise what legal process you require for this request and also confirm preservation of the data requested pending legal process.

Kind regards

John

John Michael_
_Detective Senior Sergeant*
*E-mail: john.michael@police.govt.nz <mailto:john.michael@police.govt.nz>

===============================================================

WARNING

The information contained in this email message is intended for the addressee only and may contain privileged information. It may also be subject to the provisions of section 50 of the Policing Act 2008, which creates an offence to have unlawful possession of Police property. If you are not the intended recipient of this message or have received this message in error, you must not peruse, use, distribute or copy this message or any of its contents.

Also note, the views expressed in this message may not necessarily reflect those of the New Zealand Police. If you have received this message in error, please email or telephone the sender immediately

---

Is this a joke? I'm not turning over information about my users. The person responsible for posting the video and manifesto PDF is myself.

I feel real bad for you guys, you've got a quiet nation and now this attack is going to be the first thing people think of for the next 10 years when they hear the name New Zealand, but you can't do this. Tell your superiors they're going to make the entire country and its government look like clowns by trying to censor the Internet. You're a small, irrelevant island nation barely more recognizable than any other nameless pacific sovereignty. You do not have the clout to eradicate a video from the Internet and you do not have the legal reach to imprison everyone whose posted it. If anyone turns over to you the information they're asking for they're not only cowards, but they're fucking idiots.

My name is Joshua Moon, I'm a US Citizen living overseas. My company is contained within a Florida company. If you need an address to send physical documents to this works.

Lolcow LLC
913 Beal Pkwy NW
Suite A-1017
Fort Walton Beach, FL 32547

If you're wondering, no. Kiwi Farms has nothing to do with New Zealand. Our name is a pointed jab at some of the mushmouthed autistic people we make fun of. Absolutely nothing about our community is NZ oriented.

And I don't give a single solitary fuck what section 50 of your faggot law say about sharing your email. Fuck you and fuck your shithole country.

- Josh

---

Hi Josh

Appreciate your quick response.

Will definitely consider what you have said.

Regards

John

John Michael
Detective Senior Sergeant
E-mail: john.michael@police.govt.nz
While the Christchurch incident is definitely a tragedy, the government of New Zealand has definitely stepped over the line and what they are asking for from websites is unacceptable, at least in my view.

Since the exchange, this has become news in New Zealand where the newspapers are trying to spin that Null and his website are horrible. While Kiwi Farms isn't the nicest place on the internet, I have to applaud them standing up for free speech and telling NZ to fuck off.

Here is their thread on all this.
https://kiwifarms.net/threads/2019-03-1 ... etc.54376/

Here are a few news stories.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... olice.html
https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/ow ... 515e6.html



stopnswop2
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Re: Belligerent Freedom of Speech: One of the best things about the USA

Post by stopnswop2 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:27 pm

I'm not particularly interested in any article from a site that says it's a place for "Autistic Shitposting" and is calling something a "Fucking faggot".

Sorry.

This is not middle school


Music is my life.

Deleted User 9015

Re: Belligerent Freedom of Speech: One of the best things about the USA

Post by Deleted User 9015 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:40 pm

That just demonstrates how harmless the site is, but yet, law enforcement sought to have the site collect information on users for an investigation they could not enforce.

If you value freedom of speech, this should be interesting to you because it is a good example of the way that governments abroad will attempt to manipulate private internet sites into doing what they want.



kager
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Re: Belligerent Freedom of Speech: One of the best things about the USA

Post by kager » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:19 am

The request from NZ - however over the top / over-reaching / stupid it may seem - was polite, civil. Whether they have the authority or not, it 'doesn't hurt to ask'.

While I side with the site's operator as far as rights, the disparaging remarks in the response were not only unneeded, but almost certainly designed to garner the attention they are getting.

I hope the operators of KWF enjoy their 15 seconds of fame, then disappear like the fart in a windstorm they are.


"The problem with communication is the illusion that it has occurred."

zzand
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Re: Belligerent Freedom of Speech: One of the best things about the USA

Post by zzand » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:04 am

The real question to me, is there any reason that this video should be made available to the public? No there isn't unless you are a fucking ghoul who likes to see innocent people mowed down by a wack job.



Deleted User 12047

Re: Belligerent Freedom of Speech: One of the best things about the USA

Post by Deleted User 12047 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:17 am

I'm sorry, there is NO excuse for the site owner's response. While we could have an intelligent discussion about free speech and Internet censorship, his tone approach and use of the term "faggot" just means he's some angry teenager who can't get a date with a real girl. Grow up, bitch, and be a man.



Deleted User 9015

Re: Belligerent Freedom of Speech: One of the best things about the USA

Post by Deleted User 9015 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:19 am

kager wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:19 am
The request from NZ - however over the top / over-reaching / stupid it may seem - was polite, civil. Whether they have the authority or not, it 'doesn't hurt to ask'.
It really isn't polite and civil to speak from a position of authority and ask that an admin of a website beyond your jurisdiction hold user information when your country is actively prosecuting people for having the same material you are contacting the website about. Just because you dress up a threat in soft words doesn't make the threat any less clear. NZ is responding to tragedy by clawing away at civil liberties and using veiled threats to get their way beyond their borders. Their ISPs are also acting as puppets and blocking access to websites that host the material.
zzand wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:04 am
The real question to me, is there any reason that this video should be made available to the public? No there isn't unless you are a fucking ghoul who likes to see innocent people mowed down by a wack job.
Several US Law Enforcement Agencies have contacted the website owner for full copies of the video because they can assist in training for active shooters. For a person who is concerned with gun rights and who carries based on concern of an active shooter event the video can be useful. Further, it is a raw documentation of a newsworthy event. While the video isn't my cup of tea, denying people the right to view it should tap your nerves if you value civil liberties.


Radio Sucks wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:17 am
I'm sorry, there is NO excuse for the site owner's response. While we could have an intelligent discussion about free speech and Internet censorship, his tone approach and use of the term "faggot" just means he's some angry teenager who can't get a date with a real girl. Grow up, bitch, and be a man.
I think tone and using words like "faggot" speak less to his testicular fortitude than his willingness to tell LE trying to flex at him to fuck off, no?



borderboy653659200
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Re: Belligerent Freedom of Speech: One of the best things about the USA

Post by borderboy653659200 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:35 pm

Just as there should be zero tolerance of someone's threatening to "lynch" a black poster (see :Enby Cee to Yours Truly,yesterday ),given America's sordid history of such murderous terrorism against African Americans for close to a century .



borderboy653659200
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Re: Belligerent Freedom of Speech: One of the best things about the USA

Post by borderboy653659200 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:36 pm

Hitler's Germany had "belligerent free speech ." How'd THAT turn out ?



zzand
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Re: Belligerent Freedom of Speech: One of the best things about the USA

Post by zzand » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:09 pm

You need to go back to the Detroit forum, don't need anymore trolls here, we have two and that is more than enough...Neckbeard, my question was pretty straight forward. I didn't say anyone's freedom of speech should be blocked, just why anyone, outside of law enforcement, needs to see the senseless slaughter of innocent people. There is no entertainment value to it, unless the person is a truly sick fuck, and the story can be told without showing the murders being committed.



Deleted User 9015

Re: Belligerent Freedom of Speech: One of the best things about the USA

Post by Deleted User 9015 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:56 pm

zzand wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:09 pm
Neckbeard, my question was pretty straight forward.
zzand wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:04 am
The real question to me, is there any reason that this video should be made available to the public?
Neckbeard wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:19 am
Several US Law Enforcement Agencies have contacted the website owner for full copies of the video because they can assist in training for active shooters. For a person who is concerned with gun rights and who carries based on concern of an active shooter event the video can be useful. Further, it is a raw documentation of a newsworthy event. While the video isn't my cup of tea, denying people the right to view it should tap your nerves if you value civil liberties.
Answered already. And at the end of the day, if a website owner decides to host this material, they shouldn't be the subject of an overreaching law enforcement officer trying to use his official title as a way to persuade the guy to pull content down because his country fails to value the free flow of information.
zzand wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:09 pm
I didn't say anyone's freedom of speech should be blocked, just why anyone, outside of law enforcement, needs to see the senseless slaughter of innocent people. There is no entertainment value to it, unless the person is a truly sick fuck, and the story can be told without showing the murders being committed.
There is no reason for me to see it, but there is no reason to impede the ability of anyone to see it. The standard of "why do YOU want to see X?" is a bad road to go down.



stopnswop2
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Re: Belligerent Freedom of Speech: One of the best things about the USA

Post by stopnswop2 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:05 pm

No we don't need anymore trolls in the Detroit forum.
Cowboy already acts like 10 different 12 year olds.

Send neckbeard to grand rapids.


Music is my life.

borderboy653659200
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Re: Belligerent Freedom of Speech: One of the best things about the USA

Post by borderboy653659200 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:41 pm

stopnswop2,when I was 12,I had more knowledge that the whole lot of the rest of you on this chatboard . (I was a spelling bee champ,among other accomplishments .)



FET-500
Posts: 464
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Re: Belligerent Freedom of Speech: One of the best things about the USA

Post by FET-500 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:03 pm

Radio Sucks wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:17 am
I'm sorry, there is NO excuse for the site owner's response. While we could have an intelligent discussion about free speech and Internet censorship, his tone approach and use of the term "faggot" just means he's some angry teenager who can't get a date with a real girl. Grow up, bitch, and be a man.
Way to be a moralfag.... How fucking old are you people?
Last edited by FET-500 on Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.



FET-500
Posts: 464
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Re: Belligerent Freedom of Speech: One of the best things about the USA

Post by FET-500 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:35 pm

stopnswop2 wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:05 pm
No we don't need anymore trolls in the Detroit forum.
Cowboy already acts like 10 different 12 year olds.

Send neckbeard to grand rapids.
That by definition is a Samefag.



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