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Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Discussion pertaining to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Port Huron, and SW Ontario
nick_a727
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by nick_a727 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:34 pm

Until a few years back, Comcast viewers in Holly -- in Northwestern Oakland County -- fumed when their in-market Detroit channels were blacked out by the out-of-market Flint / Tri's stations; this was because the headend for Comcast in Holly was based in Flint. This would later be changed when the headend source for Holly was switched, with Detroit channels replacing Flint's (except WJRT and WCMZ).
Also, WAQP 49 the independent religious station in Saginaw escaped from Flint/Tri-Cities channel deletion on Comcast Holly channel 10.

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TheForce
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by TheForce » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:34 am

I get both 9&10 and TV5 here south of Grayling on Charter Cable. 9&10 is in HD and TV5 isn't full screen.

organman95
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by organman95 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:29 am

Fingerboard Corners wrote: The WPBN 7/WTOM 4 NBC network head ends and microwave links were fascinating, although never 100% reliable during tropospheric events. They had the WOOD-TV 8 head end near Stanwood, and the WNEM-TV 5 head end South of Barryton. When the Weather Bugs were on 5 and 8, you could tell which head end was being used. Of course, these usually became unreliable about the same time when storms came through and affected the troposphere.

At one time, WTOM also had an off air antenna for WPBN, and at one time even an off air antenna for WNEM East of Cheboygan. When tropospheric events were happening, WNEM would occasionally be the only off air signal that worked.
Those off-air antennas and microwave links must have been removed by the late 80s or early 90s. I grew up in Cheboygan in the 90s, and remember WTOM losing carrier many times during (what I now know are) tropospheric events. As I recall, that eventually got better after Raycom Media bought 7&4 in 1997. The fun part was the phone book still had a Cheboygan phone number for the WTOM "newsroom" that people would try to call when that happened, and of course there wasn't anyone to answer the phone.
TheForce wrote:I get both 9&10 and TV5 here south of Grayling on Charter Cable. 9&10 is in HD and TV5 isn't full screen.
I lived in Houghton Lake from '09-13. I thought Charter had an HD feed for TV5? I rarely watched the Saginaw stations, so I could be wrong....

ftballfan
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by ftballfan » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:13 pm

nick_a727 wrote:
Until a few years back, Comcast viewers in Holly -- in Northwestern Oakland County -- fumed when their in-market Detroit channels were blacked out by the out-of-market Flint / Tri's stations; this was because the headend for Comcast in Holly was based in Flint. This would later be changed when the headend source for Holly was switched, with Detroit channels replacing Flint's (except WJRT and WCMZ).
Also, WAQP 49 the independent religious station in Saginaw escaped from Flint/Tri-Cities channel deletion on Comcast Holly channel 10.
Religious independents and PBS members are exempt from SyndEx as far as I know (for example, WCMZ is carried in most of Oakland County and parts of other Detroit area counties)

I think Lapeer (in the Detroit market) still gets the full set of Flint/Tri-Cities market stations on cable.


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ftballfan
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by ftballfan » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:16 pm

rugratsonline wrote:
Fingerboard Corners wrote: The WPBN 7/WTOM 4 NBC network head ends and microwave links were fascinating, although never 100% reliable during tropospheric events. They had the WOOD-TV 8 head end near Stanwood, and the WNEM-TV 5 head end South of Barryton. When the Weather Bugs were on 5 and 8, you could tell which head end was being used. Of course, these usually became unreliable about the same time when storms came through and affected the troposphere.
Out of curiosity, if neither WNEM nor WOOD are working, or if both were pre-empting NBC for a special or for sports (such as the Tigers), did WPBN / WTOM have a third source for NBC (such as WFRV Green Bay or WTMJ Milwaukee)? Or in terms of scheduled pre-emptions from both sources, did they receive advance copies of what was scheduled that night from NBC?
Fingerboard Corners wrote: Anyone with any stories about Sporadic E events taking out the Low VHF head end sources like WWJ/WDIV 4 and WNEM 5?
Don't know for certain, but by 1978, WNEM received the straight NBC network feed via microwave through WWJ / WDIV, only using the channel 4 signal itself for Tigers. That year, I went with my Cub Scout den to WNEM's then-current Becker Road studios, where we toured the facilities, including the master control and the news sets.
WFRV/WLUK (both were NBC in Green Bay at times pre-New World) and WTMJ both had cable carriage along the shoreline in the olden days, so I would guess that WPBN would have been able to pick up one of them


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MasterB
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by MasterB » Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:03 pm

Cablevision in Kalamazoo had WKBD in 80's I think it was taken off in maybe fall of 93 not sure on that as I didn't have Cablevision at the time. I know it wasn't on in 96 it was channel 10. WGN, TBS.

Adelphia Cable which my parents sign on in 88 or 89 had WNDU, WSBT out of South Bend, FOX47 out of Lansing, WWOR, WGN, TBS. I wanted remote control that Suckyvsion oh I mean Cablevision didn't have a remote control.
Go Pistons, Let's Go Redwings.

ftballfan
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by ftballfan » Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:07 am

MasterB wrote:Cablevision in Kalamazoo had WKBD in 80's I think it was taken off in maybe fall of 93 not sure on that as I didn't have Cablevision at the time. I know it wasn't on in 96 it was channel 10. WGN, TBS.

Adelphia Cable which my parents sign on in 88 or 89 had WNDU, WSBT out of South Bend, FOX47 out of Lansing, WWOR, WGN, TBS. I wanted remote control that Suckyvsion oh I mean Cablevision didn't have a remote control.
Grand Rapids (TCI) had KBD on Channel 18 (shared with C-SPAN2) all the way until WXSP came on (it may have left for a while and then came back when it picked up UPN)


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mtburb
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by mtburb » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:43 pm

My up-north place in Skidway Lake (far southern Ogemaw County, so far south part of it borders Arenac County) has Charter and it has all of the Big Four from both Traverse City and Flint. All of the carried subchannels originate from Flint as Skidway Lake is, in fact, in the Flint DMA even though it's far to the north past the line where the rural domination changes from farms to forests. No blackouts, though only the Flint locals are full screen. 7/4 is surrounded by black bars on all sides and 9/10 has black bars on the sides. That's as of July (when I spent a couple days there) though, not sure if it's changed since.
For three days in January 2017 (15th, 16th, 19th) and one night in September 2017 (22nd), I managed to receive KDKA Pittsburgh from 202 miles away indoors!

My tropo station reception reports: https://www.rabbitears.info/dxlocation.php?id=403

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rugratsonline
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by rugratsonline » Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:08 pm

ftballfan wrote: Grand Rapids (TCI) had KBD on Channel 18 (shared with C-SPAN2) all the way until WXSP came on (it may have left for a while and then came back when it picked up UPN)
Was CSPAN2 used as syndex filler?

schmave
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by schmave » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:35 am

It's been a while ago but I don't remember Buckeye Cable blacking out any syndicated programming on WJBK, WDIV, WXYZ or WKBD in the late 90s. Of course, WDIV's NBC programming was always blacked out unless there was a very rare occasion when it was showing something different from NBC 24 (maybe a different NBA game?). Network programming was even in the clear on WJBK and WXYZ, although WXYZ's feed was always a little delayed for some reason.

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Some Guy from Toledo
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by Some Guy from Toledo » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:12 pm

schmave wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:35 am
It's been a while ago but I don't remember Buckeye Cable blacking out any syndicated programming on WJBK, WDIV, WXYZ or WKBD in the late 90s. Of course, WDIV's NBC programming was always blacked out unless there was a very rare occasion when it was showing something different from NBC 24 (maybe a different NBA game?). Network programming was even in the clear on WJBK and WXYZ, although WXYZ's feed was always a little delayed for some reason.
At some point channels like WJBK and WXYZ were being fed from some other source than the CANCON satellite they were using for most of the 90's (It looked like a normal antenna reception to me). WDIV used to get its NBC programming subbed with WTVG's and perhaps WNWO's but eventually they went with some infomerical network in place. I know WXYZ's currently standing puts a white message over blue stating why they can't show what's there during those times. It's always pretty sad to think they even bother with these channels at all below the stateline (knowing they'll be in the clear up in Bedford).

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rugratsonline
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by rugratsonline » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:08 pm

schmave wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:35 am
It's been a while ago but I don't remember Buckeye Cable blacking out any syndicated programming on WJBK, WDIV, WXYZ or WKBD in the late 90s. Of course, WDIV's NBC programming was always blacked out unless there was a very rare occasion when it was showing something different from NBC 24 (maybe a different NBA game?).
When WNWO had a dispute with Buckeye a couple of years back, it was during the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi. Instead of lifting the WDIV blackouts, Buckeye simply told their viewers to watch what would be seen on NBC through CBC's coverage via CBET instead.
Some Guy from Toledo wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:12 pm
WDIV used to get its NBC programming subbed with WTVG's and perhaps WNWO's but eventually they went with some infomerical network in place.
They probably stopped placing the Toledo station over WDIV, as it probably confused some viewers that would believe they were watching WDIV all along, especially those who were Nielsen families.

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Some Guy from Toledo
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by Some Guy from Toledo » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:54 pm

rugratsonline wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:08 pm
schmave wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:35 am
It's been a while ago but I don't remember Buckeye Cable blacking out any syndicated programming on WJBK, WDIV, WXYZ or WKBD in the late 90s. Of course, WDIV's NBC programming was always blacked out unless there was a very rare occasion when it was showing something different from NBC 24 (maybe a different NBA game?).
When WNWO had a dispute with Buckeye a couple of years back, it was during the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi. Instead of lifting the WDIV blackouts, Buckeye simply told their viewers to watch what would be seen on NBC through CBC's coverage via CBET instead.
That was a lifesaver for some and a good bonus since it was the first time we FINALLY got to watch CBET in HD, of course nobody loves Canada anyway but that's besides the point.
Some Guy from Toledo wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:12 pm
WDIV used to get its NBC programming subbed with WTVG's and perhaps WNWO's but eventually they went with some infomerical network in place.
They probably stopped placing the Toledo station over WDIV, as it probably confused some viewers that would believe they were watching WDIV all along, especially those who were Nielsen families.
Probably. Most of us already know Detroit to a T down here.

ftballfan
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by ftballfan » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:01 pm

rugratsonline wrote:
Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:08 pm
ftballfan wrote: Grand Rapids (TCI) had KBD on Channel 18 (shared with C-SPAN2) all the way until WXSP came on (it may have left for a while and then came back when it picked up UPN)
Was CSPAN2 used as syndex filler?
CSPAN2 was carried between 6am and 6pm weekdays, IIRC, with KBD airing the rest of the time. GR was kind of unusual when it came to the fifth and sixth networks (UPN was imported from out of market before an LPTV picked it up and WB was a one-day delay on the PAX station [and I think only after WGN dropped the WB on its OOM feed])

schmave
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by schmave » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:34 pm

Good point on the satellite delivery of Detroit stations. I remember WJBK, CBET and WKBD always had great pictures and clearly were being taken off an antenna. Conversely, WDIV and WXYZ's pictures were always much more dull, as if they were being processed somehow (which I figured also accounted for the delay on both signals behind their Toledo counterparts).
I for one always liked having two affiliates of those networks, especially if 36 and 2 were showing different NFL games.

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rugratsonline
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by rugratsonline » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:23 pm

ftballfan wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:01 pm
[Grand Rapids] was kind of unusual when it came to the fifth and sixth networks (UPN was imported from out of market before an LPTV picked it up and WB was a one-day delay on the PAX station [and I think only after WGN dropped the WB on its OOM feed])
Flint and the Tri-Cities was kind of like that as well until WBSF signed on as a WB outlet -- UPN was represented on cable by WKBD (though WNEM carried Voyager), and the WB depended on where you live -- some systems carried WGN's national feed and/or the then-WDWB Detroit, while some areas of the market had no WB at all (such as Bresnan in Bay City / Midland). For a brief time in 1995, the Bresnan system in Bay City / Midland didn't even have UPN, when WKBD was replaced with WGKI (WFQX) on the microwave network.

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mtburb
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by mtburb » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:24 am

rugratsonline wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:23 pm
ftballfan wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:01 pm
[Grand Rapids] was kind of unusual when it came to the fifth and sixth networks (UPN was imported from out of market before an LPTV picked it up and WB was a one-day delay on the PAX station [and I think only after WGN dropped the WB on its OOM feed])
Flint and the Tri-Cities was kind of like that as well until WBSF signed on as a WB outlet -- UPN was represented on cable by WKBD (though WNEM carried Voyager), and the WB depended on where you live -- some systems carried WGN's national feed and/or the then-WDWB Detroit, while some areas of the market had no WB at all (such as Bresnan in Bay City / Midland). For a brief time in 1995, the Bresnan system in Bay City / Midland didn't even have UPN, when WKBD was replaced with WGKI (WFQX) on the microwave network.
Well I do know WGN was one of the very first channels ever offered on the Skidway Lake system in southern Ogemaw County, now part of Charter's West Branch headend, back in January 1983, so unless I'm wrong, what was at the time Avalon Cable provided WGN as the sole outlet for WB programming in the Skidway Lake area. I am not sure what they did to continue offering the WB after October 1999, which was also around the time Avalon was acquired by Charter.
For three days in January 2017 (15th, 16th, 19th) and one night in September 2017 (22nd), I managed to receive KDKA Pittsburgh from 202 miles away indoors!

My tropo station reception reports: https://www.rabbitears.info/dxlocation.php?id=403

ftballfan
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by ftballfan » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:10 am

mtburb wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:24 am
rugratsonline wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:23 pm
ftballfan wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:01 pm
[Grand Rapids] was kind of unusual when it came to the fifth and sixth networks (UPN was imported from out of market before an LPTV picked it up and WB was a one-day delay on the PAX station [and I think only after WGN dropped the WB on its OOM feed])
Flint and the Tri-Cities was kind of like that as well until WBSF signed on as a WB outlet -- UPN was represented on cable by WKBD (though WNEM carried Voyager), and the WB depended on where you live -- some systems carried WGN's national feed and/or the then-WDWB Detroit, while some areas of the market had no WB at all (such as Bresnan in Bay City / Midland). For a brief time in 1995, the Bresnan system in Bay City / Midland didn't even have UPN, when WKBD was replaced with WGKI (WFQX) on the microwave network.
Well I do know WGN was one of the very first channels ever offered on the Skidway Lake system in southern Ogemaw County, now part of Charter's West Branch headend, back in January 1983, so unless I'm wrong, what was at the time Avalon Cable provided WGN as the sole outlet for WB programming in the Skidway Lake area. I am not sure what they did to continue offering the WB after October 1999, which was also around the time Avalon was acquired by Charter.
Don't know for sure about Skidway Lake, but Ludington missed out on the last six years of the WB and didn't get CW until 2014 (!!). Manistee missed out on WB from 1999 through 2002. Traverse City never had a full-time UPN affiliate, but WGKI (WFQX) did carry some UPN shows during its run. However, the systems in Big Rapids and Ludington did (and still do) have WXSP. Speaking of WGN, I wouldn't be surprised if Ludington and Manistee had WGN from Day One of cable service.

Did Bresnan in Bay City/Midland not have WGN when it carried WB programming?

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mtburb
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by mtburb » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:59 pm

This may be at best only semi-related but this Google Maps photographer happened to capture a TV displaying the blue screen described at the start of this thread at this Anytime Fitness in Clio.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.17643,- ... 3840?hl=en

What coincidences people run into these days...
For three days in January 2017 (15th, 16th, 19th) and one night in September 2017 (22nd), I managed to receive KDKA Pittsburgh from 202 miles away indoors!

My tropo station reception reports: https://www.rabbitears.info/dxlocation.php?id=403

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Some Guy from Toledo
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Re: Detroit TV on Cable in Flint

Post by Some Guy from Toledo » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:30 am

mtburb wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:59 pm
This may be at best only semi-related but this Google Maps photographer happened to capture a TV displaying the blue screen described at the start of this thread at this Anytime Fitness in Clio.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.17643,- ... 3840?hl=en

What coincidences people run into these days...
Ooooh, love the crappy text!

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