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The future of Amp

Discussion pertaining to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Port Huron, and SW Ontario
Chrocket87
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The future of Amp

Post by Chrocket87 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:33 pm

Well, it looks like Entercom flipped the Amp brands in Dallas and NYC to Alternative almost immediately after being handed the keys. Looking at the ratings, those two had been underperforming for a while, but what could this mean for Amp 98.7? Is it among the vulnerable stations that's ripe for a change or is it doing well enoough to earn its keep?

If not, are there any LEGITIMATE format holes in Detroit for it to flip to?

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48125er
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by 48125er » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:26 pm

The safe bet to flip IMO is simulcast WWJ 950.
Last edited by 48125er on Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Mega Hertz
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by Mega Hertz » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:38 pm

Please, don't tease me. I need a good alternative outlet, and hearing rock on 98.7 would sure get me where I live. Let 9-5-5 have the club slut/yo dawg music. Make a better use of the 98.7 frequency.
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Chrocket87
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by Chrocket87 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:16 pm

If it were to go alternative, it would sound more like their recent launch in NYC, which sounds a lot like WKQX in Chicago. It sounds pretty good, from what I've been able to sample.

That said, for all we know, Amp could be doing well enough that it sticks around in the Motor City.

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MWmetalhead
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by MWmetalhead » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:23 pm

I like the format moves in Chicago and New York.

K-Hits in Chicago was fending off competition from multiple sides. The success of MeTV-FM at 87.7 MHz has caused significant ratings erosion with regard to the upper half of K-Hits' age range target. Then, you've got 94.7 WLS-FM as a direct competitor.

Classic hip-hop will book end sister station B96 nicely; this new station will be playing a lot of the music B96 played 10 to 25 years ago. Entercom has enjoyed some moderate success with the format in Seattle and San Francisco . B96 no longer enjoys the ethnic audience popularity it enjoyed for many years. The new station - 104.3 Jams - will reach an audience the other stations in the cluster largely fail to reach in large number.

Bringing alternative back in New York was a no-brainer, especially considering the disastrous ratings WBMP was putting up. The station was barely pulling in $10 million in annual ad revenue, which is awful for the #1 market. When 101.9 WRXP was still around, the station before the plug was pulled (it was still a young station at the time) was doing about $16 million per year. During the brief time the station was known as New Rock 101.9 under Merlin Media ownership - after the disaster known as "FM News 101.9" was extinguished - it grabbed a 2.5 share in ages 6+ with minimal promotion and 100% voicetracking from out of market. I see no reason why the new Alt 92.3 shouldn't be able to achieve similar to slightly better numbers than that.

The one move I don't like is Dallas. I think Entercom would've been better off sticking it out with CHR, or seguing KVIL back to Hot AC. Not one single station in their cluster is capable of reaching 25 - 44 year old white females squarely. The one that does the best job is probably their classic hits brand.

As far as Detroit is concerned, I would be surprised to see 98.7 Amp Radio leave the format. A name change and relaunch is possible, but I'd be surprised to see the station dump CHR. According to third party subscription services, the station is a middle of the pack biller, which isn't bad at all given their lousy A25-54 #'s. 93.1, 102.7, 105.1, 105.9, 106.7 and 107.5 all generate less revenue. 94.7 & 96.3 are about in the same ball park as them.

Taking on WRIF directly might be a suicide mission and is unlikely to improve billing. 97.1 does well enough on its own that it doesn't need 98.7 to act as flanker. WWJ is already the #1 biller in the market; adding an FM signal likely wouldn't augment their revenue all that much. Taking on WNIC or WDVD would require a big name morning show. Alternative? That would be a waste. Even when 89X's ratings were GOOD, their % of ad revenue on this side of the border was poor. 96.3 & 105.1 both dumped Alternative years ago, presumably because the revenue results were underwhelming. The indie/wimpy flavor of Alternative that Entercom prefers earned 89X all-time record low ratings. Just sayin'.
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MWmetalhead
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by MWmetalhead » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:05 pm

I'm surprised 94.7 Fresh FM in Washington didn't flip. That station has been on a massive losing streak the past year with A25-54. They've been hovering between 15th and 20th place as of late.

Perhaps Entercom thinks the station is salvageable?

Classic Hip Hop and Classic Hits are two formats currently unavailable on the D.C. radio dial.
C'mon iHeartRadio - do the RIGHT thing for once! Please cancel "Rover's Morning Glory" from WBFX in Grand Rapids.

Chrocket87
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by Chrocket87 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:42 pm

Methinks they've got a lot more blowing up to do before all is said and done. I'm surprised they've already made moves. ETM believed CBS had been running (largely) on autopilot for years, letting underperforming stations hang around provided they're making a sandwich bag of profit.

I didn't know Amp was billing near WDVD numbers- weren't they (96.3) just a top ten biller. In that case, I'd say Amp is safe.

option1
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by option1 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:20 pm

I wonder how much of AMP’s billing numbers comes directly from their station vs. cluster buys and add-ons from the other better performing stations.

Anyway, if I worked at AMP Detroit I wouldn’t buy a house.

format this
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by format this » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:45 pm

48125er wrote:If CBS flips AMP to alternative, It'll probably be like 93.1 in Chicago and try to compete against 93.9 the river and ultimately fail.

Safe flip IMO is simulcast WWJ.
Have you not been paying attention? Entercom owns 98.7 now... along with 97.1, 104.3, 950... the Southfield complex is no longer CBS Radio.


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MWmetalhead
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:00 pm

I rechecked the billing numbers.

If the subscription service I use is accurate, WDZH actually outbilled by WDVD by a sizeable margin in 2016. They also outbilled WCSX.

Entercom would have to be downright stupid to drop the CHR/Pop format.
C'mon iHeartRadio - do the RIGHT thing for once! Please cancel "Rover's Morning Glory" from WBFX in Grand Rapids.

Mega Hertz
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by Mega Hertz » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:54 pm

I feel like I've stated this before, but Detroit is not a good alternative market. While MW doesn't seem to like "wimpy" music, I can't take anymore "my dad didn't love me enough, you're a whore and we hate each other but can't leave each other, let's drink cheap beer and do coke" rock music.
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48125er
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by 48125er » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:46 pm

format this wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:45 pm
48125er wrote:If CBS flips AMP to alternative, It'll probably be like 93.1 in Chicago and try to compete against 93.9 the river and ultimately fail.

Safe flip IMO is simulcast WWJ.
Have you not been paying attention? Entercom owns 98.7 now... along with 97.1, 104.3, 950... the Southfield complex is no longer CBS Radio.


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Completely forgot, lol, I edited my comment.

pixelplay
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by pixelplay » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:44 pm

I've heard from the get go that AMP was hyper focused on young females 18-34. They've done pretty well in that demo from time to time (I heard they had 7 shares sometimes in that demo). It was the big reason that they dropped Smooth Jazz as CBS was severely lacking the young females in Detroit for national buys and Smooth Jazz went from super diary numbers to awful PPM numbers except in older demos, in fact Dan Mason was big on courting younger demos in general in many markets then. WOMC was the other possible station to switch at the time because of older demos and lackluster PPM numbers. WWJ was safe as was the Ticket and WYCD because of the money they were bringing in (Smooth Jazz's best salesperson for the format died from cancer and that sealed their doom as most new young sellers couldn't get their heads around how to sell it). Who knows what Entercom plans. I keep reading they love sports above all else.

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1027BrianFM
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by 1027BrianFM » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:29 am

No, Detroit has always tricky market for rock. Part of The Reason The Edge went down in flames is that there just was too many rock stations at the time, also it was a bit to eclectic for advertisers. However, i am talking 20 years ago but the alternative format is what mega hertz described. I think sadly we are stuck with WRIF and 89x(if it even matters).

Captain Rock
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by Captain Rock » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:01 am

Station owners, in general, prefer younger demos. So which commercial FM stations in Detroit have the oldest demos?

Mega Hertz
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by Mega Hertz » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:35 am

1027BrianFM wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:29 am
No, Detroit has always tricky market for rock. Part of The Reason The Edge went down in flames is that there just was too many rock stations at the time, also it was a bit to eclectic for advertisers. However, i am talking 20 years ago but the alternative format is what mega hertz described. I think sadly we are stuck with WRIF and 89x(if it even matters).
And the other part was that (and the playlist similarities between WCSX and WRIF are astounding), when a listener tuned into 105.1 to hear NIN, Green Day, Nirvana, STP, Alice In Chains, etc., that was cutting into WRIF's pie. And in 1998, there wasn't all the "Three Finger God Punch" bands out yet, which now comprise a good portion of WRIF's playlist. And now that WCSX has started airing the likes of GNR and Crue, I'm wondering when their (riff's) playlist will start to shift.
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MWmetalhead
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:00 pm

It already has. WRIF today sounds noticeably different than it did 10 years ago. There has always been artist overlap between 101 and 94.7. Beasley wants Riff P1s to be P2 listeners to WCSX and vice versa.
C'mon iHeartRadio - do the RIGHT thing for once! Please cancel "Rover's Morning Glory" from WBFX in Grand Rapids.

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1027BrianFM
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by 1027BrianFM » Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:18 pm

The Edge, was killed off as was 106.7 for the said reasons. I think 98.7 going rock would be an uphill battle but I would love to see it.

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MWmetalhead
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by MWmetalhead » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:25 pm

In response to Captain Rock, I presume WMUZ (who I do not consider to be a mainstream station), WCSX, WOMC and WNIC have the oldest demos.

However, WCSX and WNIC also perform well with A25-54 and WOMC performs well with A35-54.

The last time we had a commercial FM station that had good ratings with senior citizens but terrible numbers with Generation X-aged adults was Magic 105.1 / Soft Rock 105.1 / Today's 105.1. We all know what became of them.
C'mon iHeartRadio - do the RIGHT thing for once! Please cancel "Rover's Morning Glory" from WBFX in Grand Rapids.

Captain Rock
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Re: The future of Amp

Post by Captain Rock » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:48 pm

There are rumors that Entercom might bring an Alternative format to Detroit. Which of their 4 FMs is least profitable?

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