Acceptable registrations in the queue through March 16 at 11:00a ET have now been activated. Enjoy! -M.W.

Terms of Use have been amended effective October 6, 2019. Make sure you are aware of the new rules! Please visit this thread for details: https://www.mibuzzboard.com/phpBB3/view ... 16&t=48619

Gretcholm wants to raise fuel taxes by 45 cents/gallon by 2020

Debate and discussion of current events and political issues across the U.S. and throughout the World. Be forewarned -- this forum is NOT for the intellectually weak or those of you with thin skins. Don't come crying to me if you become the subject of ridicule. **Board Administrator reserves the right to revoke posting privileges based on my sole discretion**
Deleted User 4520

Re: Gretcholm wants to raise fuel taxes by 45 cents/gallon by 2020

Post by Deleted User 4520 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:59 pm

Chatfield says Michigan should ensure that all taxes paid at the pump go to roads. Much of the sales tax on fuel goes to schools and local governments.

https://www.wlns.com/news/michigan/hous ... 1833848917



Deleted User 14896

And the Lansing Shuffle begins

Post by Deleted User 14896 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:50 pm

This has been floating around on the internet this morning.

"an estimated 40 percent of the $1.26 billion gas tax increase in 2020 — would not go to roads. Instead, it would replace current transportation budget dollars that would be redirected to pay for other state government spending".

I'll not vouch for the validity of the website. But they say they are getting the information from the Mackinac Center for Public Policy. If true, there is some validity in my opinion.

https://www.michigancapitolconfidential ... port-roads
Last edited by Deleted User 14896 on Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Deleted User 4520

Re: Gretcholm wants to raise fuel taxes by 45 cents/gallon by 2020

Post by Deleted User 4520 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:58 pm

Actually this article is misleading and way off base.
Mike Oxlong wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:50 pm
This has been floating around on the internet this morning. Basically says not all the money is not going to go to roads.

"an estimated 40 percent of the $1.26 billion gas tax increase in 2020 — would not go to roads. Instead, it would replace current transportation budget dollars that would be redirected to pay for other state government spending".

I'll not vouch for the validity of the website. But they say they are getting the information from the Mackinac Center for Public Policy. If true, there is some validity in my opinion.

https://www.michigancapitolconfidential ... port-roads
Last edited by Deleted User 4520 on Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Matt
Posts: 9845
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:18 pm
Location: Where Ben Zonia couldn't cut it

Re: Gretcholm wants to raise fuel taxes by 45 cents/gallon by 2020

Post by Matt » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:46 pm

NS8401 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:13 am
stopnswop2 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:05 am
Wow :o
That’s the same way an $80,000 a year teacher was crying poor and claiming he couldn’t make ends meet as it was when they tried to cut pay in Ann Arbor a few years ago...
I vaguely remember that. Unfortunately, I'm too lazy to google. I'm also not sure that googling "entitled cunt says $80,000 not enough for teaching Ann Arbor" would net the result I'm looking for.
NS8401 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:54 am
audiophile wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:51 am
TC Talks wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:26 pm
audiophile wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:58 pm
Matt wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:56 pm
bmw wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:46 pm
People incur an additional $562 per year in damage to their vehicle due to poor roads as compared to if the roads were better?
I'm not buying it.
I don't remember the last time I paid ANYTHING for road related repairs.
I don't think I put $565 in repairs in 20 years.
We don't all do our own repairs...


Helps to cars that are designed and manufactured well.
We all may have a different definition of when a vehicle requires repair too...
I don't think anyone disputes that bad roads are more likely to cause required repair work. The issue that many of us are taking is with the numbers the Whitmer Administration seems to have pulled out of thin air. My car "repair" skill set is limited to replacing wiper blades and light bulbs. I've saved some money that way, but neither are really attributable to bad roads.


What's more pathetic: harassing an old man who is paying to do a radio show or supporting a grifter like Trump?

User avatar
audiophile
Posts: 8546
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:21 pm
Location: Between 88 and 108 MHz.

Re: Gretcholm wants to raise fuel taxes by 45 cents/gallon by 2020

Post by audiophile » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:58 pm

How much of the repairs can be attributed to salt?


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

Deleted User 8570

Re: Gretcholm wants to raise fuel taxes by 45 cents/gallon by 2020

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:52 am

audiophile wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:58 pm
How much of the repairs can be attributed to salt?
Components that take a while to rust like brake and fuel lines maybe... but suspension parts and tires and rims come from hitting lots of big potholes...



Deleted User 10525

Re: Gretcholm wants to raise fuel taxes by 45 cents/gallon by 2020

Post by Deleted User 10525 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:16 am




User avatar
MWmetalhead
Site Admin
Posts: 11870
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:23 am

Re: Gretcholm wants to raise fuel taxes by 45 cents/gallon by 2020

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:53 am

So I should feel bad for and attempt to prop up people’s irresponsible financial decisions? Screw that. Being a spendthrift isn’t anyone’s problem but the clowns that can’t live within their means.

My in-laws make $129,000 a year and borrow from my wife and I for groceries because they have no money or are negative and live paycheck to paycheck. If you are looking for sympathy for stupid people then look elsewhere. You could get them in line easily by cutting their spending but they decline the offer and CHOOSE to be in that position. Not my problem.
I cannot help but wonder if you enjoy paying taxes.

You poo-pooed the Trump tax cuts, and now you are proudly endorsing a massive gas tax hike.

I would assert that raising our gas taxes by $0.45 per gallon (or even $0.20 per gallon) prior to giving Michigan residents much needed auto insurance premium relief would constitute an "irresponsible financial decision" on the part of Lansing. After all, it is OUR money, not theirs.



Deleted User 8570

Re: Gretcholm wants to raise fuel taxes by 45 cents/gallon by 2020

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:11 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:53 am
So I should feel bad for and attempt to prop up people’s irresponsible financial decisions? Screw that. Being a spendthrift isn’t anyone’s problem but the clowns that can’t live within their means.

My in-laws make $129,000 a year and borrow from my wife and I for groceries because they have no money or are negative and live paycheck to paycheck. If you are looking for sympathy for stupid people then look elsewhere. You could get them in line easily by cutting their spending but they decline the offer and CHOOSE to be in that position. Not my problem.
I cannot help but wonder if you enjoy paying taxes.

You poo-pooed the Trump tax cuts, and now you are proudly endorsing a massive gas tax hike.

I would assert that raising our gas taxes by $0.45 per gallon (or even $0.20 per gallon) prior to giving Michigan residents much needed auto insurance premium relief would constitute an "irresponsible financial decision" on the part of Lansing. After all, it is OUR money, not theirs.
You are completely ignoring the increases in fuel efficiency that greatly offset this increase. Even pickups are getting near 30 MPG these days. Do I enjoy it? No. I am enough of an adult to realize that paying taxes is the price of a functioning society however. We’ve cut taxes endlessly. Each time we do things simply deteriorate further. That’s an indisputable correlation. If funding is cut but services are not cut an equal amount then services suffer. Nobody wants their services cut a bit but they like the idea of cutting taxes. Then these morons wonder why the services suffered. I have little sympathy for those folks who expect everything to work well no matter how far things are cut. It defies basic math. In “the good old days” taxes were higher and gee... whatta ya know... Services were better. Apparently common sense isn’t common. The fact that dollars paid are higher is irrelevant. Percentages are lower. Percentages matter. Screw the dollar amounts, inflation skews that badly and makes it look worse than it is.



User avatar
MWmetalhead
Site Admin
Posts: 11870
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:23 am

Re: Gretcholm wants to raise fuel taxes by 45 cents/gallon by 2020

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:30 am

You are acting as if taxes on fuel - along with vehicle registration fees - have been flat over the past 30 years. That couldn't be farther from the truth.

Michigan is the most expensive state in the country for car ownership:
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/03/2 ... Owning-Car

We already have the fifth most expensive fuel tax on a per gallon basis, and that's before even considering the 6% sales tax!

You think it's OK if our gas taxes are raised to highest in the nation (by a country mile) even though (i) little of the 6% sales tax charged at the pumps goes to roads and (ii) our auto insurance rates are suffocating many low to middle income families in this state?

Where is your outrage over our excessive auto insurance rates?!?!

Yes, our roads have been underfunded for far too long. Yes, something meaningful absolutely must be done about it. My point is this - there is no need to squeeze Michiganders financially!! The solution is simple. Reduce our auto insurance rates by fixing no-fault, then reallocate most of those dollars into our roads. It's a win-win. Taxpayers (who follow the law and actually purchase auto insurance) are left with as much money if not more money in their pocket than today, our roads get the money they so desperately need, and as road conditions improve - repair costs (and insurance costs) will decrease, saving taxpayers even more money in the long run.

Explain to me how the above proposal defies "common sense."
It defies basic math. In “the good old days” taxes were higher and gee... whatta ya know... Services were better.
Please name some examples of services that were "better." I'm having trouble thinking of any.



User avatar
MWmetalhead
Site Admin
Posts: 11870
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:23 am

Re: Gretcholm wants to raise fuel taxes by 45 cents/gallon by 2020

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:44 am

https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s- ... ue-3305762

Tax revenue taken in by the treasury is nearly 3.5x the amount of revenue received in 1990.

One dollar in 2018 is the equivalent of $0.52 in 1990.

0.52 x 3.5 = 1.82x ratio between 2018 and 1990 when using 1990 monetary units.

U.S. population in 1990 = 250 million
U.S. population in 2018 = 327 million
Ratio of 2018 population to 1990 population = 1.31x.

So, even though the U.S. population has risen only 31% percent since 1990, the federal tax burden (in 1990 dollars) has risen 82% since 1990. This means the federal tax burden per capita has INCREASED (and increased substantially), not decreased.

I would be curious to know what a similar analysis at the state level would reveal.



Deleted User 4520

Re: Gretcholm wants to raise fuel taxes by 45 cents/gallon by 2020

Post by Deleted User 4520 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:48 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:44 am
I would be curious to know what a similar analysis at the state level would reveal.
As would I!



JackAttack FM
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:50 pm

Re: Gretcholm wants to raise fuel taxes by 45 cents/gallon by 2020

Post by JackAttack FM » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:48 am

Has any one of the "media outlets" in Michigan actually published or aired the actual amount of state taxes we pay per gallon? Its not just 18 cents per gallon with sales tax.
According to the the American Petrolium Institute in January the total with state taxes and fees is 38.41 cents per gallon.
56.81 cpg with federal taxes.
Michigan is ranked 9th highest in per gallon gas taxes.

That's more then...
Illinois 50.32 cpg        (32cpg from state taxes)
Ohio 46.41 cpg            (28cpg from state taxes)
Minnesota 47.0 cpg    (28.6cpg from state taxes)
These are states that have similar climates, better roads and comprehensive mass transit systems in their metro areas.

So with a 45 cpg increase we're going to 83 cents per gallon in state taxes?!?!
That would put us far ahead of the highest state right now which is Pennsylvania with 58.7cpg in state gas taxes.
Its not like this is going to drive people to take mass transit... because we hardly have any.

Ohio's Republican governor wants to raise their state gas tax from 28 to 46 cents. I feel like I just landed back on Earth when I read that.

I get that better fuel millage has states looking at raising gas taxes.
But, Michigan's problem isn't the gas tax. Its that we're in the top ten states for gas tax and in the bottom ten for transportation spending.

I want to see the following put in place...
The gas tax to go to the roads.
Weight restrictions on trucks or at least trucks restricted to routes built to handle heavier loads.
Higher contruction standards.
Useless or experimental road building plans, like traffic circles and US-23 north of Ann Arbor haulted until the existing roads are repaired.
Funding for mass transit to get more cars off the road.
Deal with the insurance rates.
And I like that selling bonds idea MW had for the road repairs, provided the state has the credit rating.

Then we can talk about raising the gas tax by 20 cents per gallon.



Deleted User 4520

Re: Gretcholm wants to raise fuel taxes by 45 cents/gallon by 2020

Post by Deleted User 4520 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:22 am

The thing is that our roads are literally so bad from years of neglect. I am a bit weary that the appropriate amount of money can be raised w/o some sort of gas tax, even if it's much lower than the asked for .45 cents. It's going to have to be a combination of things. And let's stop the roundabout things. There are roads in disarray and that should be the priority before any roundabout.



User avatar
ZenithCKLW
Posts: 833
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:21 am
Location: Livonia, MI

Re: Gretcholm wants to raise fuel taxes by 45 cents/gallon by 2020

Post by ZenithCKLW » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:55 am

Roundabouts are supposed to improve safety. Whether or not that's true is debatable, and not my point. Also, I don't think "Useless or experimental road building plans, like traffic circles and US-23 north of Ann Arbor haulted until the existing roads are repaired" is a good idea. Reason being: should we fix those roads that need upgrading or rebuilding to old standards, finish, then say "well, let's try the new plan now, so TEAR IT UP!"? That's poor planning. Kill two birds with one stone, since we don't have many stones. Investing and improving construction methods may require some experimenting. And you can't experiment on a road without tearing it up, so let's get it all done at once.



Post Reply Previous topicNext topic