‘Stand your ground’ laws linked to 11% rise in U.S. firearm homicides

[TC Talks]

More bad news for the gun toting white racist nuts...

“Stand your ground” laws may have led to hundreds of additional homicides every year in the United States, according to a new study that could boost criticisms that they encourage unnecessary violence.

Fiercely debated and increasingly common in the United States, stand-your-ground laws remove the duty to retreat from an attacker when possible before responding with potentially deadly force. They became a flash point in national disputes over gun violence, self-defense and racial profiling, particularly after the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin, a Black teenager, in 2012.

Stand-your-ground laws are associated with an 11 percent increase in monthly firearm homicide rates, according to the new study, with especially striking jumps in Southern states that embraced stand-your-ground early on. That amounts to 700 additional homicides each year, according to the findings published Monday in JAMA Network Open, a peer-reviewed medical journal.

Justifications for stand-your-ground often “center around these laws actually having some protective effect on public safety and deterring violence,” said David Humphreys, an associate professor at the University of Oxford and one of the paper’s authors, in an interview. “There doesn’t seem to be any evidence to show that and, you know, we only seem to see the opposite effect.”

The research echoes some other studies that found spikes in firearm homicides after the laws were passed — especially in Florida, which kicked off a wave of stand-your-ground legislation in 2005. Michelle Degli Esposti, the study’s lead author, said she and her colleagues “really wanted to unravel whether [Florida] was just this outlier.”

The trend extends well beyond one state, she said. But the national numbers also mask big geographical differences.

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The largest jumps in homicides and firearm homicides — as high as 33.5 percent — occurred in southern states including Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana and Missouri. In contrast, stand-your-ground laws were not associated with significant changes in Arizona, Indiana, Michigan, Nevada, Oklahoma, Texas and West Virginia, the study found.

[bmw]

So what you're saying is that stand your ground laws are leading to more criminals being shot and killed by innocent people.

Good.

[TC Talks]

So what you're saying is that stand your ground laws are leading to more criminals being shot and killed by innocent people.

Good.

In the south, many aren't criminals, that is why they are homicides. Murder is good? Thank God you're not a Christian.

[km1125]

If it's a human being killed, then it's a homicide, right? The question is whether or not it's justified.

In most cases, I'd call them"suicides" rather than "murder".

[bmw]

So what you're saying is that stand your ground laws are leading to more criminals being shot and killed by innocent people.

Good.

In the south, many aren't criminals, that is why they are homicides. Murder is good? Thank God you're not a Christian.

You are racist as f*ck. Sorry you hate white people so much.

[Bryce]

Might be nice if we had a link to the study.

And KM is right. A homicide is not necessarily murder. When a person is killed, it's ruled a homicide, justifiable or not. Keep in mind that the first state to expand the Castle Doctrine from one's home to anywhere a person has a legal right to be was the State of Florida. Although there was a rise in JUSTIFIABLE homicides after passage, around 7 percent, between 2005 and 2010 the overall violent crime rate in the state dropped 23%

Those numbers lead me to believe that good, law abiding citizens are benefitting from "Stand Your Ground" and the criminal element is suffering.

[bmw]

And KM is right. A homicide is not necessarily murder.

That was my point when I said "So what you're saying is that stand your ground laws are leading to more criminals being shot and killed by innocent people." That was perhaps a bit of an exaggeration of course, but TC Talks makes it sound like a bunch of racist white people are just stepping out their front door and shooting perfectly innocent people for no good reason (which, I'm sure that's exactly how HE views what is going on).

[Bryce]

TC Talks makes it sound like a bunch of racist white people are just stepping out their front door and shooting perfectly innocent people for no good reason (which, I'm sure that's exactly how HE views what is going on).

Well, sure he does. It makes sense to him being as members and leaders of his favorite political party were doing it to black people in the south back in the early 1900's. Of course, many times they would dress up in white costumes before they did it then.

[Rate This]

Might be nice if we had a link to the study.

And KM is right. A homicide is not necessarily murder. When a person is killed, it's ruled a homicide, justifiable or not. Keep in mind that the first state to expand the Castle Doctrine from one's home to anywhere a person has a legal right to be was the State of Florida. Although there was a rise in JUSTIFIABLE homicides after passage, around 7 percent, between 2005 and 2010 the overall violent crime rate in the state dropped 23%

Those numbers lead me to believe that good, law abiding citizens are benefitting from "Stand Your Ground" and the criminal element is suffering.

Violent crime was dropping on the whole anyways having peaked in the early 90’s.

I assure you the criminal element is alive and well.

[Deleted User 9015]

Might be nice if we had a link to the study.

And KM is right. A homicide is not necessarily murder. When a person is killed, it's ruled a homicide, justifiable or not. Keep in mind that the first state to expand the Castle Doctrine from one's home to anywhere a person has a legal right to be was the State of Florida. Although there was a rise in JUSTIFIABLE homicides after passage, around 7 percent, between 2005 and 2010 the overall violent crime rate in the state dropped 23%

Those numbers lead me to believe that good, law abiding citizens are benefitting from "Stand Your Ground" and the criminal element is suffering.

Violent crime was dropping on the whole anyways having peaked in the early 90’s.

I assure you the criminal element is alive and well.

Right, I honestly don't think that anyone is thinking "this is a stand your ground state! I better not do X!"

That said, personal protection is a dicey thing. If someone breaks into someone's private residence, its really hard to make an argument that someone should be arrested for using a firearm to protect themselves. Their property, no. If its the case that a crackhead's running from your house with your microwave, then I don't see the problem with tackling them and doing what you need to so you can restrain them, but if someone is in your home at 3AM, they should expect someone to put them down.

[Bryce]

That said, personal protection is a dicey thing. If someone breaks into someone's private residence, its really hard to make an argument that someone should be arrested for using a firearm to protect themselves. Their property, no. If its the case that a crackhead's running from your house with your microwave, then I don't see the problem with tackling them and doing what you need to so you can restrain them, but if someone is in your home at 3AM, they should expect someone to put them down.

What is your opinion of a scenario where someone is trying to rob you a knife point in a Walmart parking lot?

[Deleted User 9015]

That said, personal protection is a dicey thing. If someone breaks into someone's private residence, its really hard to make an argument that someone should be arrested for using a firearm to protect themselves. Their property, no. If its the case that a crackhead's running from your house with your microwave, then I don't see the problem with tackling them and doing what you need to so you can restrain them, but if someone is in your home at 3AM, they should expect someone to put them down.

What is your opinion of a scenario where someone is trying to rob you a knife point in a Walmart parking lot?

If someone is robbing me at knifepoint, personally, I would be fucked! I don't know how to disarm someone so I would be an idiot to try. From a legal standpoint, if they escalated the situation to that point then they should expect the same stakes to apply, but if I give them whatever they wanted and they start running away, I don't believe I should have the right to draw a firearm and shoot at them, if that is what you are asking. If we are face-to-face, then yeah, but if they are escaping, then no.

[Bryce]

, if they escalated the situation to that point then they should expect the same stakes to apply, but if I give them whatever they wanted and they start running away, I don't believe I should have the right to draw a firearm and shoot at them, if that is what you are asking. If we are face-to-face, then yeah, but if they are escaping, then no.

Spot on. If they are running away, with a knife, they are no longer a threat and deadly force is not warranted.

Where it gets dicey is if they have a gun and running away. You can never be sure if they are trying to find cover to shoot from.

[TC Talks]

And KM is right. A homicide is not necessarily murder.

That was my point when I said "So what you're saying is that stand your ground laws are leading to more criminals being shot and killed by innocent people." That was perhaps a bit of an exaggeration of course, but TC Talks makes it sound like a bunch of racist white people are just stepping out their front door and shooting perfectly innocent people for no good reason (which, I'm sure that's exactly how HE views what is going on).

Just Google race inspired shooting and see what comes up.