Buttgieg Only Half Right About City Expressways

[TC Shuts Up]

Buttgieg claims that expressways built in cities were built to separate White and Black neighborhoods. My experience is that they were built to separate neighborhoods of differing social classes.

One city and situation I am familiar with, they built the expressway right between Lower Middle Class and Middle Class subdivisions and Upper Middle Class and Upper Class subdivisions.

Before the expressway, you could easily walk between the subdivisions. Children generally went to the same public schools and parochial schools, though at least one went to Cranbrook from the Higher Class subdivision. Children from one subdivision often socialized, dated, and eventually often married the students from the other subdivision. Many times, upwardly mobile families would move from the Middle Class to the Upper Middle Class subdivision.

After the expressway, the social mobility and associations between the different social class areas were considerably reduced. The children in the Upper Middle Class and their parents looked down on the children in the Middle Class neighborhood, and the parents started to regard the children in the Middle Class neighborhood like trailer trash, and didn't want their sons and daughters to socialize, date and marry them. When the older Working Class neighborhoods were also considered, the higher social class parents actively prevented their children from marrying "down".

Granted, these themes were often the topic of many 1960s Popular songs. But it's social class and not race discrimination that's often operating here.

[MWmetalhead]

I suspect a number of anecdotal examples exist similar to the one you describe.

To change the subject just a bit:

It is common knowledge 375 was built in the precise location it was built to screw over the residents of the "Black Bottom" neighborhood just east of downtown Detroit.

That being said, I am opposed to modern day efforts to rip out 375 and put a congested surface street in its place. There is a mindset among certain Detroit developers that making the city more difficult to enter or leave by car will lead to increased demand for residential space among those who work downtown.

[FakeAndyStuart]

Gentlemen, I recommend reading your history before posting your half baked comments..

https://www.amazon.com/Power-Broker-Rob ... 0394720245

Underlying Moses' strikingly strict policing for cleanliness in his parks
was, Frances Perkins realized with "shock," deep distaste for the public that
was using them. "He doesn't love the people," she was to say. "It used to
shock me because he was doing all these things for the welfare of the people.
. He'd denounce the common people terribly. To him they were lousy,
dirty people, throwing bottles all over Jones Beach. 'I'll get them! I'll teach
them!'.. He loves the public, but not as people. The public is just the public.
It's a great amorphous mass to him; it needs to be bathed, it needs to be
aired, it needs recreation, but not for personal reasons--just to make it a
better public." Now he began taking measures to limit use of his parks. He
had restricted the use of state parks by poor and lower-middle-class families
in the first place, by limiting access to the parks by rapid transit; he had
vetoed the Long Island Rail Road's proposed construction of a branch spur to
Jones Beach for this reason. Now he began to limit access by buses; he in-
structed Shapiro to build the bridges across his new parkways low--too low
for buses to pass. Bus trips therefore had to be made on local roads, making
enter state parks; buses chartered by Negro groups found it very difficult
to obtain permits, particularly to Moses' beloved Jones Beach; most were
shunted to parks many miles further out on Long Island. And even in these
parks, buses carrying Negro groups were shunted to the furthest reachesof
the parking areas. And Negroes were discouraged from using "white" beach
areas--the best beaches--by a system Shapiro calls "flagging"; the handful
of Negro lifeguards (there were only a handful of Negro employees among
the thousands employed by the Long Island State Park Commission) were
all stationed at distant, least developed beaches. Moses was convinced that
Negroes did not like cold water; the temperature at the pool at Jones Beach
was deliberately icy to keep Negroes out.

[TC Shuts Up]

Yes, many things are done by government at all levels that can only be understood as Social Engineering. College dormitory room assignments come to mind. And I can tell you from personal experience that Asian American and African American students absolutely HATE being put in the same room/suite with "European Americans", and will go to the ends of the earth to try to reverse it.

College areas also bring to mind US 127 and I-496 in Lansing East Lansing as another example of Social Engineering.

[Bobbert]

When I look at a map of highways in the Detroit area, they seem to all go in a certain direction in the most direct way possible. For example, 375 and the Lodge both go in the same direction as Woodward and are equidistant from Woodward.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3545134,-83.3793885,10z

I would also guess that people of all races, incomes, and class levels were affected by highway development through the years.

[Matt]

There is a mindset among certain Detroit developers that making the city more difficult to enter or leave by car will lead to increased demand for residential space among those who work downtown.

The same shit is happening in Ann Arbor. Main Street is 1 lane in each direction with a left hand turn lane from Stadium Boulevard to downtown with giant bike lanes on each side. The city council can't help tripping over it's metaphorical dick trying to decide where to put the next dedicated bike lane and further impede vehicular travel flow.

[TC Shuts Up]

Yes. In Ann Arbor, the expressways more or less circle and wall off the city from the more conservative and often higher income areas outside the "city walls". Throughout History, there have been "city walls". They have just taken on different forms.

For many years, Ann Arbor has sought to impede driving and car ownership, and Domestic car ownership in particular. The campus areas have become virtually undrivable. The Medical Establishment wisely demanded access from the Plymouth Rd. US 23 Area to access and provide overnight accommodations for the Teritary Care, University Hospital, and Medical Office areas. It takes Medical Professional level intelligence to demand these things in the face of the social engineering forces. This is just inside the "city walls".

Jerry was probably the last sane person on the Ann Arbor City Council. I'm sorry I once regarded him as a right winger. He was just moderate.

[Deleted User 14896]

Well, I was going to stay out of this. But I just read an article about what Buttgieg said and I have to comment.
I can't speak for other freeways in Metro Detroit.
I-75 was built the cheapest way they could go. Vacant fields as much as possible. The cheapest land they could buy thru the built up areas. It was as simple as that.
Coming northbound, they used vacant fields until they got into Lincoln Park. Picked a route with cheap bungalows to bulldoze thru LP.
Then back to vacant land until they got into SW Detroit.
Yes, it is true they plowed under Hastings Street and Black Bottom and all the businesses and homes along the way.
But from what I remember, it was simply the least expensive route to buy out.

[MWmetalhead]

I hate dedicated bike lanes!!!

The most moronic such lanes can be found along Northwestern Hwy in West Bloomfield Twp.

During construction, the stupid bike lanes reduce available "thru" lanes to just one or two lanes. I've never observed even one bicyclist utilize those lanes along Northwestern. There are very few households near that stretch of roadway, too. Just a stupid idea all around!

The bike lanes along Eton Ave. in Birmingham also annoy the crap out of me. In that instance, obnoxious speed bumps and dividing polls were installed. It makes the streetscape look incredibly cluttered.

Matt is absolutely right regarding Main St; taking away traffic lanes near Michigan Stadium is flat out stupid.

[audiophile]

More woke bad ideas.