Biden gets U.S. out of Afghanistan

[bmw]

My latter statement was 100% tongue-in-cheek. Obviously trying to full-blown occupy a Middle-east country would come with its own set of problems. I'm simply pointing out that if we WANTED to take over, it looks like we pretty easily could have without any resistance, at least from the people who lived within.

[MWmetalhead]

Biden's handling of Afghanistan - sloppy.

Biden's handling of the border - sloppy.

Biden referring to Whitmer as "Jennifer" - sloppy.

In the weeks ahead, there'll probably be more examples.

[TC Talks]

Biden's handling of Afghanistan - sloppy.

Biden's handling of the border - sloppy.

Biden referring to Whitmer as "Jennifer" - sloppy.

In the weeks ahead, there'll probably be more examples.

And yet he's doing a much better job then Trump. Every poll agrees.

[Matt]

Biden's handling of Afghanistan - sloppy.

Biden's handling of the border - sloppy.

Biden referring to Whitmer as "Jennifer" - sloppy.

In the weeks ahead, there'll probably be more examples.

And yet he's doing a much better job then Trump. Every poll agrees.

I haven't seen one poll compare the two. Try again.

Biden has shown his ass to the world on Afghanistan, and he's impressing no one.

[bmw]

And yet he's doing a much better job then Trump. Every poll agrees.

Not exactly.

A slew of new polls have come out this week showing the shrinking support for and approval of President Joe Biden, his average now below 50%.

But today, Rasmussen Reports is issuing the capper, telling Secrets that in an election do-over, Biden would lose to former President Donald Trump.

By a six-point margin, 43%-37%, likely voters would pick Trump over Biden “if the next presidential election were held today.”

The details of the survey, which samples more Democrats than Republicans, showed that Trump would win more women and blacks than he did in 2020 when he lost to Biden, 46.8%-51.3%.

A sizable 14% would choose “some other candidate,” though none were named.

Ouch.

https://www.yahoo.com/now/regrets-trump ... 00643.html

[TC Talks]

Let's look to composites, we know how the outliers can be.

[kager]

OPS&S had Biden's EO pen so hot undoing the previous 4 years as soon as his addled arse hit the oval office...

Why did they pussy-foot around this one?

[Matt]

OPS&S had Biden's EO pen so hot undoing the previous 4 years as soon as his addled arse hit the oval office...

Why did they pussy-foot around this one?

The lefties on here are oddly silent about this fact and Afghanistan as a whole.

[TC Talks]

This certainly was a promise Trump made and failed to execute.

This was a hard decision decision and I haven't heard anything of you Trumptards condemning him for being too chicken shit to follow through.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

[Deleted User 9015]

OPS&S had Biden's EO pen so hot undoing the previous 4 years as soon as his addled arse hit the oval office...

Why did they pussy-foot around this one?

The lefties on here are oddly silent about this fact and Afghanistan as a whole.

Biden executed an order that will get our troops out of an area where they were doing very little good to begin with and where the US had no business being in 2021. Hell, the US had very little business being there in 2001.

I keep seeing people bemoaning the position of women and children following the pullout. The problem is that the troops being there really just had a marginal impact. Our soldiers were told not to confront a lot of things. One thing in particular that stands out in my mind is that young boys are routinely molested in some parts of the country and our troops couldn't do anything about that. Things like FGM and such still happened. Women and LGBT people were still persecuted. You cannot change a government without changing culture and society first, and trying to do that as an armed intruder isn't going to work. Russia failed and the US failed. Bush was an idiot for making war there in 2001.

The purpose of the war was to apprehend bin Laden and leadership that supported 9/11. The Taliban government offered to hand bin Laden over to the US, but Bush declined the offer. That makes no sense. Using the military in any situation should be a last resort, and considering the luck that Russia had in Afghanistan, I don't know why any of his advisors didn't shake him to tell him this was a dumb idea. But he executed the decision to put our troops and money on the line there and for 20 years we failed to do anything significant. Which isn't the fault of the military, more the fault of thoughtless leadership at home.

If you have to be in a country for 20 years, then there is nothing good coming from your presence there to begin with. The situation that is unfolding now is ugly and a humanitarian crisis, but it was brewing for 20 years. I don't know why some people think there is a magic strategy that would have left Afghanistan with a non-violent or minimally violent conclusion, and I absolutely cannot fathom how the US, after 20 years, could have improved things much more than what was done.

Obama was dumb to add to the mess. If Trump did what Biden did, he would deserve an "atta boy". But I think there is a very important lesson to learn here. That even after 20 years of occupation, everything can fall apart within hours. Occupation just does not work and fundamental change in government doesn't occur from the top-down, but has to come from society, from the bottom-up. Hopefully, we can learn to place less resources toward a military that really is incapable of doing the impossible. What is the thing drunks say? "Give me the power to change the things I can and wisdom to accept the things I cannot"? Well, the military can defend the US pretty well, but cannot change the hearts and minds of populations.

Biden will receive blame for a conclusion where things return to the status quo, but it is hard to envision a scenario, after 20 years, where things do not return to the status quo, unless the US was to remain in the country. We all knew this would happen. Russia taught us this. The lesson here should be that the US should accept a role in trying to influence and be a good model for when a country is ready for change. Afghanistan wasn't and it may take another 100 years before they are. The US cannot flex muscles and scare fundamental change, especially when a population is packed with people willing to die for their way of life. But the takeaway will be something along the lines of everything being a-ok until Biden ruined everything. I think we can do better in examining this situation, but considering the fact that political discussion in the West has been dumbed down to the point that it is indistinguishable from discussion of sports teams, it will become more attune to "Biden bad, look at this link from X!"

So why the silence? Probably because people agree that its a total mess, but also had said it would end in a mess for two whole decades, and had long-since gotten bored with explaining that things would end in the way that they did, 20 years later. Probably should have just took bin Laden when he was offered to begin with.

[SoutheastMIViewer]

Things just get worse for Biden.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... Kabul.html

[lidoshuffle]

This certainly was a promise Trump made and failed to execute.

This was a hard decision decision and I haven't heard anything of you Trumptards condemning him for being too chicken shit to follow through.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

Deflection at it's finest TC, you admit the Biden Admin. is so inept and clueless it can't overcome Trump policies, even though that admin. has been out of office eight months now? Biden is the top dog, the policies and decisions being made in Afghanistan are on him, him alone, just like all your "Orange Man Bad" comments during #45's four years, Trump was fired by the American voters wayyy back in November, #45 has nothing to do with what's going on in Afghanistan, #46 is calling the shots, maybe Trump didn't follow thru on any decisions to pull out of Afghanistan because his military advisors told him what might happen, like what's happening now? Biden is in an epic freefall concerning this Afghan debacle, you Libs wanted out of there, you got what you wished for....

[Lester The Nightfly]

Biden executed an order that will get our troops out of an area where they were doing very little good to begin with and where the US had no business being in 2021. Hell, the US had very little business being there in 2001.

I keep seeing people bemoaning the position of women and children following the pullout. The problem is that the troops being there really just had a marginal impact. Our soldiers were told not to confront a lot of things. One thing in particular that stands out in my mind is that young boys are routinely molested in some parts of the country and our troops couldn't do anything about that. Things like FGM and such still happened. Women and LGBT people were still persecuted. You cannot change a government without changing culture and society first, and trying to do that as an armed intruder isn't going to work. Russia failed and the US failed. Bush was an idiot for making war there in 2001.

The purpose of the war was to apprehend bin Laden and leadership that supported 9/11. The Taliban government offered to hand bin Laden over to the US, but Bush declined the offer. That makes no sense. Using the military in any situation should be a last resort, and considering the luck that Russia had in Afghanistan, I don't know why any of his advisors didn't shake him to tell him this was a dumb idea. But he executed the decision to put our troops and money on the line there and for 20 years we failed to do anything significant. Which isn't the fault of the military, more the fault of thoughtless leadership at home.

If you have to be in a country for 20 years, then there is nothing good coming from your presence there to begin with. The situation that is unfolding now is ugly and a humanitarian crisis, but it was brewing for 20 years. I don't know why some people think there is a magic strategy that would have left Afghanistan with a non-violent or minimally violent conclusion, and I absolutely cannot fathom how the US, after 20 years, could have improved things much more than what was done.

Obama was dumb to add to the mess. If Trump did what Biden did, he would deserve an "atta boy". But I think there is a very important lesson to learn here. That even after 20 years of occupation, everything can fall apart within hours. Occupation just does not work and fundamental change in government doesn't occur from the top-down, but has to come from society, from the bottom-up. Hopefully, we can learn to place less resources toward a military that really is incapable of doing the impossible. What is the thing drunks say? "Give me the power to change the things I can and wisdom to accept the things I cannot"? Well, the military can defend the US pretty well, but cannot change the hearts and minds of populations.

Biden will receive blame for a conclusion where things return to the status quo, but it is hard to envision a scenario, after 20 years, where things do not return to the status quo, unless the US was to remain in the country. We all knew this would happen. Russia taught us this. The lesson here should be that the US should accept a role in trying to influence and be a good model for when a country is ready for change. Afghanistan wasn't and it may take another 100 years before they are. The US cannot flex muscles and scare fundamental change, especially when a population is packed with people willing to die for their way of life. But the takeaway will be something along the lines of everything being a-ok until Biden ruined everything. I think we can do better in examining this situation, but considering the fact that political discussion in the West has been dumbed down to the point that it is indistinguishable from discussion of sports teams, it will become more attune to "Biden bad, look at this link from X!"

So why the silence? Probably because people agree that its a total mess, but also had said it would end in a mess for two whole decades, and had long-since gotten bored with explaining that things would end in the way that they did, 20 years later. Probably should have just took bin Laden when he was offered to begin with.

That's actually a pretty good post Neck.

Two things. The biggest screwup (aside from going in there in the first place) was Obama not pulling out as soon as bin Ladin was eliminated. He could have said it all at once "We got bin Ladin, no more reason to stay" and just dropped the mic. That's not to say it wouldn't have been a similar clusterfuck which leads to my second point. I'd sure like to hear someone offer an example of a failed military action withdrawal that wasn't a shitshow. Oh and by the way, we as Americans don't have an exclusive on the wheels falling off on a pullout. It happened with European and South America countries and players with regularity too or are we forgetting some of those spectacular banana republic and eastern Europe trainwrecks? Nope, it's the nature of the beast and it would have happened regardless of who made the call.

[Deleted User 9015]

Nope, it's the nature of the beast and it would have happened regardless of who made the call.

What is sad is that the main takeaway isn't to learn from this or from history, but that whoever is president or in a position of leadership failed. It was failed from the time we deployed our soldiers over there.

[Bryce]

Then again, no one has flown jetliners into any of our buildings since we went in and disrupted Taliban/ISIS/ISLAMONAZI central either.