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Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Some folks just cannot resist the urge to debate current issues of the day...here's the place to satisfy your craving. BE FOREWARNED - if you are an intellectual lightweight, you might find it a bit rough in here. This place is kinda like a never-ending edition of the McLaughlin Group. (Whatever happened to Mort Zuckerman, anyway?)
bmw
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by bmw » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:01 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:11 am
This editorial from Nolan Finley this morning does an outstanding job of summarizing the quagmire known as the Trump presidency:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinio ... 104671748/
This is becoming the story of the boy who cried wolf. How many times have we heard in the past, going all the way to the early days of Trump's campaign, that OH HE HAS FINALLY DONE IT. He finally sunk his candidacy. Or he finally sunk his presidency.

Much like every other controversy he's been involved in (and there are PLENTY) this one too will blow over.

NS8401
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by NS8401 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:17 am

bmw wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:01 am
MWmetalhead wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:11 am
This editorial from Nolan Finley this morning does an outstanding job of summarizing the quagmire known as the Trump presidency:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinio ... 104671748/
This is becoming the story of the boy who cried wolf. How many times have we heard in the past, going all the way to the early days of Trump's campaign, that OH HE HAS FINALLY DONE IT. He finally sunk his candidacy. Or he finally sunk his presidency.

Much like every other controversy he's been involved in (and there are PLENTY) this one too will blow over.
Now he's gone and said that history and culture are being ripped apart and nothing can ever be great enough to replace these civil war statues.

First of all, there's nothing great about statues devoted to traitors and later plain losers... secondly I can think of several things you could put there that would be far less irritating and divisive. Thirdly... did I mention they lost? They are sore losers and nothing more... tear it down...

The mythical revisionist history that led to the statues being put up in the 20th century in a fit of greatly revived racism (the same era that brought Jim Crow about) must be rooted out with the correct history... namely that states rights were secondary as a cause of the civil war and the slavery question was a primary concern... this is something they turned on its ear and the myth of slavery playing a bit part got larger over time... heck Lee spent the rest of his life going around advocating AGAINST statues of him...

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MWmetalhead
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by MWmetalhead » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:19 pm

When he said that there were plenty of good people on both sides, wasn't he referring to people that are for, and those that are against, the removal of the "statues"?
Given the full context of the statement, it sure didn't seem he was referring to the political argument for keeping vs. removing the statues, but rather, the attendees.

I definitely didn't see any peaceful, fair-minded folks in the video footage.

And for the record, Jason Kessler is a wacko. Do some research on his history, bmw and Bryce. Just recently, he has taken up the mantle of "white identity" politics. Previously, he was involved in Occupy Wall Street. He also has a criminal record.

Topics such as what went down in Charlottesville should be softballs (from a rhetorical standpoint) for a powerful leader such as the President of the USA. The fact Trump has mishandled this so badly just baffles me.
C'mon iHeartRadio - do the RIGHT thing for once! Please cancel "Rover's Morning Glory" from WBFX in Grand Rapids.

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MWmetalhead
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by MWmetalhead » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:28 pm

Kessler has also recorded himself speaking about " the need to preserve history" from "Marxist revisionism" — a far-right conspiracy theory which says that Jews escaped Nazi Germany in order to "erode Western values.
Source: businessinsider.com
C'mon iHeartRadio - do the RIGHT thing for once! Please cancel "Rover's Morning Glory" from WBFX in Grand Rapids.

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Bryce
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by Bryce » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:53 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:19 pm
When he said that there were plenty of good people on both sides, wasn't he referring to people that are for, and those that are against, the removal of the "statues"?
Given the full context of the statement, it sure didn't seem he was referring to the political argument for keeping vs. removing the statues, but rather, the attendees.
This is what I based my observation on:
"You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name," he said.
~Repeal And Replace, Mitch Mcconnell.~

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Turkeytop
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by Turkeytop » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:17 pm

With all the vile, ugly and hateful things that guy has said this week, it amazes me that he still has defenders. Highly respected Republican leaders are now denouncing his words.

NS8401
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by NS8401 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:08 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:17 pm
With all the vile, ugly and hateful things that guy has said this week, it amazes me that he still has defenders. Highly respected Republican leaders are now denouncing his words.
There's always some blind fool around here... more than one this time...

screen glare
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by screen glare » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:42 pm

Just wait until Hitler's band of threatened pale-faced dweebs shows up in another city for a "rally" and torch parade.

First - will they even be able to get a permit?

Second - will local and state police show up wearing riot gear?

And third - will Nazi numb skulls start shooting instead of swinging?

I think preps will be much different when they pull this shit in the next city or town.

America is an armed camp. Law enforcement now knows ... the next Nazi staging will feature fatalities from bullets!

Y M Ionhere
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by Y M Ionhere » Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:59 pm

I have a feeling there is a higher percentage of the African-American population that harbors racist sentiment or bitterness against whites (whether they know it or not) than there are a percentage of whites who harbor racist sentiments towards African-Americans (whether they know it or not).

I believe 100% that there is a vastly higher number of leftists who wish or fantasize about violence towards the right and truly hate, intolerate, and personally show philosophical bigotry against the right, than there are right-wingers who truly wish violence and have a personal hatred and intolerance of the left.

I will bet my house on it.

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Turkeytop
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by Turkeytop » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:07 pm

Y M Ionhere wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:59 pm
I have a feeling there is a higher percentage of the African-American population that harbors racist sentiment or bitterness against whites (whether they know it or not) than there are a percentage of whites who harbor racist sentiments towards African-Americans (whether they know it or not).

I believe 100% that there is a vastly higher number of leftists who wish or fantasize about violence towards the right and truly hate, intolerate, and personally show philosophical bigotry against the right, than there are right-wingers who truly wish violence and have a personal hatred and intolerance of the left.

I will bet my house on it.

It wouldn't be at all surprising if African Americans are bitter toward a race of people who had enslaved their people. A race of people of whom a sizable minority wants to return to those good old days of slavery and a white President who sympathizes with those ideals.

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Bryce
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by Bryce » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:14 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:07 pm
and a white President who sympathizes with those ideals.
Hold on there Mr.

Please find a quote or statement that shows T Rump sympathizes with folks that are in favor of slavery.
~Repeal And Replace, Mitch Mcconnell.~

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Turkeytop
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by Turkeytop » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:49 pm

Bryce wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:14 pm
Turkeytop wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:07 pm
and a white President who sympathizes with those ideals.
Hold on there Mr.

Please find a quote or statement that shows T Rump sympathizes with folks that are in favor of slavery.
Give it up Bryce. This guy is irredeemable. :lol


He promotes the continued veneration of Confederate traitors to your country, those who fought and killed thousands of Americans in their efforts to perpetuate slavery.

bmw
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by bmw » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:00 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:07 pm
...a race of people of whom a sizable minority wants to return to those good old days of slavery...
And you mean specifically white conservatives, correct?

bmw
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by bmw » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:03 pm

Y M Ionhere wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:59 pm
I believe 100% that there is a vastly higher number of leftists who wish or fantasize about violence towards the right and truly hate, intolerate, and personally show philosophical bigotry against the right, than there are right-wingers who truly wish violence and have a personal hatred and intolerance of the left.
These days, the left (as a whole) has less tolerance for the right than the right has for the left. That is indeed a fact.

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Turkeytop
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by Turkeytop » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:40 pm

bmw wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:00 pm
Turkeytop wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:07 pm
...a race of people of whom a sizable minority wants to return to those good old days of slavery...
And you mean specifically white conservatives, correct?


Racism isn't a left-right issue. There are lots of Democrats who are racist and I'm sure that there are Republicans outside the Trump base who aren't

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Bryce
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by Bryce » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:43 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:49 pm


He promotes the continued veneration of Confederate traitors to your country, those who fought and killed thousands of Americans in their efforts to perpetuate slavery.
Keeping markers of historical significance and "veneration" are two different things.

Frankly, I am probably better versed in our Constitution and associated documents than the average joe. I just can't seem to recall a right not to be offended. If there is such a thing, I'm going to start my list. It'll be a long one.
~Repeal And Replace, Mitch Mcconnell.~

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Turkeytop
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by Turkeytop » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:16 pm

The statues were erected in veneration of those a**holes. Mot of them , during the 20th century, long after the war had been lost.

Do the Germans revere statues of Hitler? Do the Russians adore Statues of Stalin?

After the defeat of Saddam's regime, the first thing the people did was pull down his statue.

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Bryce
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by Bryce » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:36 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:16 pm
The statues were erected in veneration of those a**holes. Mot of them , during the 20th century, long after the war had been lost.

Do the Germans revere statues of Hitler? Do the Russians adore Statues of Stalin?

After the defeat of Saddam's regime, the first thing the people did was pull down his statue.
Leaving a statue of a person with historical significance does not mean you "revere" the person or their deeds. Some may, most do not.

Regarding Stalin and Russia, here's a list of places a statue of Joeseph can be found in Russia according to Wiki:

Many statues can be found at Fallen Monument Park, Moscow.
Bust at his tomb in the Kremlin Wall Necropolis, Moscow.
Bust in the Museum of the Great Patriotic War, Moscow.[9]
Statue of Stalin along with Franklin Roosevelt and Winston Churchill at the All-Russia Exhibition Center, Moscow.
A bust stands at the Memorial of Glory in Vladikavkaz.
A bust stands at School No. 2 in Ardon, North Ossetia.[10]
There is bust of Stalin in the Communist Party's regional headquarters in Bryansk.[11]
A bust of Stalin is in Kizel.
A statue in Nogir (ru), North Ossetia–Alania.
A statue of Stalin is in the yard of School No.2, Ardon, North Ossetia–Alania.
A bust of Stalin in the village of Chokh, Dagestan.
A bust of Stalin at a square in Derbent, Dagestan.

Should we remove all the statues or memorials to Franklin Delano Roosevelt because he locked up American citizens in internment camps because they had Japanese ancestors? Or because he turned away a ship holding over 900 Jews that were later slaughtered by the Nazi's?
~Repeal And Replace, Mitch Mcconnell.~

NS8401
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by NS8401 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:46 pm

Bryce wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:36 pm
Turkeytop wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:16 pm
The statues were erected in veneration of those a**holes. Mot of them , during the 20th century, long after the war had been lost.

Do the Germans revere statues of Hitler? Do the Russians adore Statues of Stalin?

After the defeat of Saddam's regime, the first thing the people did was pull down his statue.
Leaving a statue of a person with historical significance does not mean you "revere" the person or their deeds. Some may, most do not.

Regarding Stalin and Russia, here's a list of places a statue of Joeseph can be found in Russia according to Wiki:

Many statues can be found at Fallen Monument Park, Moscow.
Bust at his tomb in the Kremlin Wall Necropolis, Moscow.
Bust in the Museum of the Great Patriotic War, Moscow.[9]
Statue of Stalin along with Franklin Roosevelt and Winston Churchill at the All-Russia Exhibition Center, Moscow.
A bust stands at the Memorial of Glory in Vladikavkaz.
A bust stands at School No. 2 in Ardon, North Ossetia.[10]
There is bust of Stalin in the Communist Party's regional headquarters in Bryansk.[11]
A bust of Stalin is in Kizel.
A statue in Nogir (ru), North Ossetia–Alania.
A statue of Stalin is in the yard of School No.2, Ardon, North Ossetia–Alania.
A bust of Stalin in the village of Chokh, Dagestan.
A bust of Stalin at a square in Derbent, Dagestan.

Should we remove all the statues or memorials to Franklin Delano Roosevelt because he locked up American citizens in internment camps because they had Japanese ancestors? Or because he turned away a ship holding over 900 Jews that were later slaughtered by the Nazi's?
The statues of the Confederates were erected precisely as a revival of racist sentiments and a desire to not let it go and to venerate them as great men who were defeated in a noble cause...

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Turkeytop
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by Turkeytop » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:59 pm

Twelve statues in the world celebrating Joseph Stalin and only two people in the world who would object to their removal. Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump.

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