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Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Some folks just cannot resist the urge to debate current issues of the day...here's the place to satisfy your craving. BE FOREWARNED - if you are an intellectual lightweight, you might find it a bit rough in here. This place is kinda like a never-ending edition of the McLaughlin Group. (Whatever happened to Mort Zuckerman, anyway?)
zzand
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by zzand » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:17 pm

So you go back to the two men and miss the point entirely. The greater majority of people, not one man, but people, that's the key word, gave Obama a pass, so those same wonderful people need to do the same now or shut the fuck up about it. I would be willing to bet the greater majority of those on this thread have no clue how the whole Charlottesville thing started, I don't mean this weekend, I mean the removal of Civil War statues. Do some research and get educated about it. The genesis of it all may very well shock you. I grew up in a democrat family, with the exception of my kids, their mom and myself they all still are and they are the most bigoted, racist people I have ever known. We have little to do with them because their view on people is disgusting which is funny since we are considered a minority in this country. Funny how the party of the people embraces racism and bigotry more than the part which supposedly is in love with it.

NS8401
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by NS8401 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:19 pm

zzand wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:17 pm
So you go back to the two men and miss the point entirely. The greater majority of people, not one man, but people, that's the key word, gave Obama a pass, so those same wonderful people need to do the same now or shut the fuck up about it. I would be willing to bet the greater majority of those on this thread have no clue how the whole Charlottesville thing started, I don't mean this weekend, I mean the removal of Civil War statues. Do some research and get educated about it. The genesis of it all may very well shock you. I grew up in a democrat family, with the exception of my kids, their mom and myself they all still are and they are the most bigoted, racist people I have ever known. We have little to do with them because their view on people is disgusting which is funny since we are considered a minority in this country. Funny how the party of the people embraces racism and bigotry more than the part which supposedly is in love with it.
Yes, Confederate statues of a man who didn't want any statutes erected that were put up 30-60 years after the war ended and a false narrative of alternate history had taken hold... I did my research thank you...

And as to the previous presidents actions it shows your pure ignorance for how these situations are not at all the same and how you just want to go "but what about..." to excuse this idiot... the previous president had a strategic diplomatic reason for not using "radical Islamic terrorism"... this president has no such reasons available to him...

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Bryce
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by Bryce » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:33 pm

NS8401 wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:19 pm
. the previous president had a strategic diplomatic reason for not using "radical Islamic terrorism"...
Yeah...

He sure did! :rollin
~Repeal And Replace, Mitch Mcconnell.~

NS8401
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by NS8401 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:36 pm

Bryce wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:33 pm
NS8401 wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:19 pm
. the previous president had a strategic diplomatic reason for not using "radical Islamic terrorism"...
Yeah...

He sure did! :rollin
If we called it that then the Muslim countries would take it as an insult and we would have gained nothing by doing so...

All of the diplomatic stuff we built has been burned to the ground by this clown... so much for getting anything done and intimidating anybody...

screen glare
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by screen glare » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:32 am

6-million Jews. 1 1/2- million of them were frightened little kids and babies. Their collective ashes from the Nazi death camp ovens are still blowing in the wind. All over the earth.

Only zzand and his conned band of voters who put a mentally ill man in the white house are still - standing by their deranged POTUS. The rest of the conned sheep are finally awake to what they've done.

And they are mortified.

Question is - how can Donald Trump be removed from office?

Wake up zzand - and say you made a mistake. Then join the resistance and put your country first. Become a patriot instead of Putin's patsy. We forgive you, bro. Time is of the essence.

bmw
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by bmw » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:38 pm

screen glare wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:32 am
Question is - how can Donald Trump be removed from office?
The answer is, find yourself a democratic candidate better than Hillary in 2020 and beat him fair and square. Pretty simple, actually.

NS8401
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by NS8401 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:14 pm

bmw wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:38 pm
screen glare wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:32 am
Question is - how can Donald Trump be removed from office?
The answer is, find yourself a democratic candidate better than Hillary in 2020 and beat him fair and square. Pretty simple, actually.
He won't last... he doesn't want to job... he's pretty clearly self sabotaging and self destructing...

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MWmetalhead
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by MWmetalhead » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:27 pm

Donald Trump is either a clueless idiot, an unrepentant racist, or all of the above.

There were some "very good people" protesting Friday Night, Mr. President??? Seriously? You've got to be kidding me.

Yeah, I'm sure the "very good people" were quietly imbedded within the throngs of torch carrying neo-nazi marchers chanting "jews will not replace us." That scene in Charlottesville was downright frightening and should be a shock to any decent, fair-minded, non-bigoted American. That march, by the way, passed directly in front of a Jewish synagogue with churchgoers inside. One of the more gruesome scenes within the borders of our own country that I've seen in my lifetime - I only can think of three events offhand that top it.

Trump is an even bigger piece of shit than I gave him credit for being. I am embarrassed and ashamed to have that jackass be the face of our great nation.

To be clear - there are certainly folks who support retaining the confederate monuments who are not bigots who see them strictly as historical monuments. I respect and appreciate that point of view. However, these people aren't the ones who showed up in Virginia on Friday night or Saturday. Rather, the folks who staged the rally at the Robert E. Lee monument site in Charlottesville and who marched through the streets are detestable, anti-semitic, racist, Hitler-loving, neo-nazi scum who should be marginalized from society in the strongest way possible.

Coming right out and embracing the white supremacist vermin is, frankly, the only way Trump could've done more collateral damage to himself and to the country.

Had Trump simply let things be after his Monday statement, I think (eventually) a lot of folks would've moved on. I thought Trump did an OK job clearing the record on Monday and I (wrongly) assumed that would be the end of it from his standpoint. What he did publicly Tuesday was the worst possible move he could've made.

I suspect his own children are embarrassed and ashamed by their father's actions and words. I also wonder what Jared Kushner thinks of these latest developments.

Ya know whose words in response to this past weekend's events were completely appropriate? Jeff Sessions. He at least said the RIGHT thing.

Even Robert E. Lee's namesake - Mr. Robert E. Lee V - strongly condemned the actions of the white supremacists and said he'd have no issue with the statues' removal. General Lee wanted the nation to be healed following the civil war.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/16/us/robert ... index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/16/us/robert ... index.html
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MWmetalhead
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by MWmetalhead » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:49 pm

Funny how the party of the people embraces racism and bigotry more than the part which supposedly is in love with it.
The predominantly blue collar, paranoid, bigoted, rust belt dwelling white Democrat voter to whom you refer voted in very big numbers for Trump this past election. They seemed to love his rhetoric and apparently still do.

And for the record, I do not give Obama a free pass for failing to use the terminology "Radical Islamic Terrorism." However, I'm pretty sure he referred to Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and similar groups by name on numerous occasions.

I don't see anyone (at least not anyone in mainstream society) pressing Trump to use the term "Extremist Christian Domestic Terrorists." (The KKK considers itself a Christian organization.)
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MWmetalhead
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by MWmetalhead » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:13 pm

I also want to say the only thing that is more disgusting than what Trump said yesterday is Justin Trudeau's total ass kissing of Fidel Castro upon Castro's death. Trudeau's gushing accolades toward Castro were sickening.

How nice. Both United States and Canada have complete tools as President and Prime Minister, respectively.
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Motown322
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by Motown322 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:34 pm

It's a sad day in this country where we have people (including the President) using the ol' "yeah, but ____" and "well, whaddabout _____??" shit to try and make some equivocating statement about fucking white supremacists and neo-Nazis.

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Turkeytop
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by Turkeytop » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:43 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:13 pm
I also want to say the only thing that is more disgusting than what Trump said yesterday is Justin Trudeau's total ass kissing of Fidel Castro upon Castro's death. Trudeau's gushing accolades toward Castro were sickening.

How nice. Both United States and Canada have complete tools as President and Prime Minister, respectively.

Trudeau's old man had all the makings of a dictator. While he was Prime Minister, in response to an act of domestic terrorism in Quebec, he suspended the rights of every Canadian for about six months. Gave police authority to arrest and detain anyone without charges and without a trial. A friend of mine, right here in Ontario, was arrested and held for no other reason than he was a Trade Union activist with a French sounding name.

Jr. is cut from the same cloth as the old man. Don't read too much into what he said about Castro. He's a Liberal. A Liberal will say whatever the believe sounds good. There's no sincerity behind the words.

bmw
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by bmw » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:58 pm

NS8401 wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:07 pm
...Trump himself raked Obama over the coals repeatedly for not calling out "Radical Islamic Terrorism" though their actual religious aim at the leadership level rather than using religion as a vehicle to power and a recruiting tool is questionable. Trump then won't call out domestic terrorism despite the fact that what's good for the goose should be good for the gander and the person who believes one is "Radical Islamic Terrorism" should also admit "Radical White Supremacist Terrorism" just as immediately...
I actually agree with this 100 percent and this is where I think Trump made his biggest mistake. Combined with the fact that he has an image problem regarding denouncing the KKK during his campaign, he had an opportunity to do so and blew it. His second statement on this issue is what his first one should have been.

Now with that said, I don't believe that his 3rd statement (ie, his press conference) somehow undermined his 2nd statement. Denouncing the violence coming from the left and denouncing it from the right are not mutually exclusive statements. You CAN do both, and I didn't interpret anything he said as an attempt at a moral equivalency.

On a side note, I believe the media is blowing this WAY out of proportion and is only throwing fuel onto the racial tensions that exist in this country. The only story the media likes more than OJ Simpson or Trump/Russia is one that paints republicans as racists and fuels racial tensions.

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Turkeytop
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by Turkeytop » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:32 pm

Image

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MWmetalhead
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by MWmetalhead » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:11 am

This editorial from Nolan Finley this morning does an outstanding job of summarizing the quagmire known as the Trump presidency:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinio ... 104671748/
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NS8401
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by NS8401 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:48 am

bmw wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:58 pm
NS8401 wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:07 pm
...Trump himself raked Obama over the coals repeatedly for not calling out "Radical Islamic Terrorism" though their actual religious aim at the leadership level rather than using religion as a vehicle to power and a recruiting tool is questionable. Trump then won't call out domestic terrorism despite the fact that what's good for the goose should be good for the gander and the person who believes one is "Radical Islamic Terrorism" should also admit "Radical White Supremacist Terrorism" just as immediately...
I actually agree with this 100 percent and this is where I think Trump made his biggest mistake. Combined with the fact that he has an image problem regarding denouncing the KKK during his campaign, he had an opportunity to do so and blew it. His second statement on this issue is what his first one should have been.

Now with that said, I don't believe that his 3rd statement (ie, his press conference) somehow undermined his 2nd statement. Denouncing the violence coming from the left and denouncing it from the right are not mutually exclusive statements. You CAN do both, and I didn't interpret anything he said as an attempt at a moral equivalency.

On a side note, I believe the media is blowing this WAY out of proportion and is only throwing fuel onto the racial tensions that exist in this country. The only story the media likes more than OJ Simpson or Trump/Russia is one that paints republicans as racists and fuels racial tensions.
His "plenty of good people on the right who were attacked by club wielding leftists" was a mistake in that press conference... he never should have said good people when referring to the the fascists and nazis... fools mistake...

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Turkeytop
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by Turkeytop » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:58 am

His "plenty of good people on the right who were attacked by club wielding leftists" was a mistake in that press conference... he never should have said good people when referring to the the fascists and nazis... fools mistake...
That wasn't a mistake. It was exactly what he intended to say. He wanted to get the message out to those a**holes that he's their ally.

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Bryce
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by Bryce » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:32 am

When he said that there were plenty of good people on both sides, wasn't he referring to people that are for, and those that are against, the removal of the "statues"? Just because you may feel strongly that historical monuments not be removed, doesn't mean that you're a member of the KKK. Because you feel they should be removed doesn't make you part of Antifa.

Speaking of Antifa, this is a mission statement from their website:
It's Going Down is a digital community center from anarchist, anti-fascist, autonomous anti-capitalist and anti-colonial movements. Our mission is to provide a resilient platform to publicize and promote revolutionary theory and action.
These folks are radicals and anarchists. They hate our country and would like nothing more than to destroy it.

And let's face it. If these folks wouldn't have shown up at a legal protest with a permit, NOTHING would have happened.
~Repeal And Replace, Mitch Mcconnell.~

bmw
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by bmw » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:37 am

NS8401 wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:48 am
His "plenty of good people on the right who were attacked by club wielding leftists" was a mistake in that press conference... he never should have said good people when referring to the the fascists and nazis... fools mistake...
This is precisely what annoys me about the way this is being covered. Trump did NOT lump the nazis and fascists together in the same group as the sane people who were protesting the removal of the statues. The rally was initially organized by a relatively unknown person - Jason Kessler. He legally obtained a permit to hold his rally and even won an emergency injunction, backed by the ACLU, to hold his rally in the location where he applied to hold it as opposed to the city moving it elsewhere.

From what little info I can find on this guy, he does not appear to be associated with the KKK or the nazis; rather, he appears to be one of the normal people MW referred to a few posts back who had a legitimate gripe against the removal of the Robert E. Lee statue, his cause going back to 2016 when the vice-mayor of Charlottesville called for its removal. The rally ended up being hijacked by the crazies on the right.

Trump was merely sympathizing with those who had legitimate reasons to oppose the statue removals, and unlike most of the media, I'm not going to read any more into it than that.

EDIT - seeing a new post by Bryce - he is exactly right. The "normal" people on the right who showed up may have been in a minority, but there was nothing wrong with their cause, and that's what Trump was pointing out.

screen glare
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Re: Trump Responsible for "Unite the Right" Deadly Violence

Post by screen glare » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:52 am

Just keep those "magically transforming" glasses on, Bryce. When Trump resigns, or someone submits his resignation for him, you'll see it as the fault of the press, the Clintons, President Obama, or shift blame to anyone or anything besides Trump and his mental illness.

I inderstand those glasses of yours are also excellent for looking at the solar eclipse.

Then pass them to bmw so he can get a look.

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