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Bias chart: Do you agree?

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craig11152
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:15 am
Location: Ann Arbor

Re: Bias chart: Do you agree?

Post by craig11152 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:35 pm

NS8401 wrote: I'd hate to have somebody force me to carry anything around in my body I didn't want... it's not a very conservative position really to strive for that to be the case.... it's rather dictatorial in fact...
Nobody is talking about the fetus having a "choice" in the matter anyways... I think you know that...
Do you have a time limit on your ability to make a decision?
Is there a point in your mind where "its too late"?
Is there a point in your mind where a fetus morphs in to an unborn child?
Or
Are you perhaps OK with the concept of an abortion days or hours before a full term birth?

I'm curious about what sort of moral code you may have with regard to the abortion issue?
I am asking honest questions because I struggle myself with answers.


I no longer directly engage trolls

bmw
Posts: 6724
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:02 am

Re: Bias chart: Do you agree?

Post by bmw » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:38 pm

audiophile wrote:My point NS: is that Pro-choice is an obvious misnomer but it is what they want to be called...

In the same way Pro-life is what the other side wants to be called.
This is correct. One side focuses on the rights of the mother, while the other side focuses on the rights of the unborn child. Hence, pro-life vs pro-choice. My point is that pro-choice is a misnomer because it is a distraction to the real argument. If an unborn child is not a life, then the "choice" question is wholly irrelevant because there are no competing interests (ie, the life of the child vs the choice of the mother since there is no life of a child against which to weigh a mother's right to choose). If, however, the unborn child IS a life, then what difference does it make whether it is inside of or outside of the mother? In either case it is still wholly dependent on the mother.

The abortion debate drives me crazy and I generally avoid it because I feel that people on both sides, but moreso on the pro-choice side, engage in so much emotional demagoguery that it is impossible to have a rational debate.



screen glare
Posts: 2778
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:05 am

Re: Bias chart: Do you agree?

Post by screen glare » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:19 pm

Abortion. Abortion. Abortion. It's always been an option. It will ALWAYS be an option.

The question is: will only the fetus/baby die? Or both the fetus/baby - AND the woman?

If your daughter decides against your best argument to go ahead and abort - and does - would you rather both she AND the fetus/baby die? Or only the fetus/baby?

You're a damn liar if you answer both the fetus/baby AND your daughter.



Deleted User 8570

Re: Bias chart: Do you agree?

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:25 pm

bmw wrote:I know this is off-topic, and I generally avoid abortion arguments at all costs, but I just have to respond to this....
NS8401 wrote:We are talking what adults do... they are in control here... a fetus cannot possibly make a choice... I'd hate to have somebody force me to carry anything around in my body I didn't want... it's not a very conservative position really to strive for that to be the case.... it's rather dictatorial in fact...
Can a baby that has just been born make a choice? Would you hate to have somebody force you as a parent of a newborn to care for a child that you didn't want? Is it dictatorial to force a parent of a newborn to not kill their newborn?

My point being, the pro-life, pro-choice, anti-choice, anti-life, or whatever other phrase you want to use to describe this debate boils down to one question and one question only - is an unborn fetus a life? If it is, then the same rules which apply to living people should apply. If it is not a life, then the "choice" portion of the argument becomes irrelevant because the only relevant point is that it is not illegal to destroy and discard a non-living human. To lay out the argument in terms of a woman's choice is a red herring to the real issue here....the life of an unborn child, and whether that unborn child should have rights.

Also, I would add, if you didn't want the baby, you shouldn't have engaged in sexual intercourse. Or are you going to tell me that THAT behavior was NOT a choice? The libertarian in you should agree that caring for the child that results from your actions of choice is a matter of personal responsibility. I always thought libertarians were big on personal responsibility for one's own actions.
I'm a liberal libertarian... so I think all of it... before, during and after is 100% their business and none of mine or anyone else's... including religious folks, assholes with a "conscience" they feel others need to have imposed on them or the government...



bmw
Posts: 6724
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:02 am

Re: Bias chart: Do you agree?

Post by bmw » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:30 pm

"before, during, and after" what exactly? Because I'd hate to jump to the conclusion that you're suggesting that a mother should be able to kill her newborn baby.



Deleted User 8570

Re: Bias chart: Do you agree?

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:40 pm

bmw wrote:"before, during, and after" what exactly? Because I'd hate to jump to the conclusion that you're suggesting that a mother should be able to kill her newborn baby.
Sex.... I'm not condoning murder... just talking the decision to have sex, having sex and then its aftermath... I should have clarified that further, sorry...



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