How Would Trump Punish Companies For Leaving The US?

[Deleted User 8570]

So what did Mr. Jones do to retain ANY company in Indy?

One could probably argue Mr. Jones drove Carrier out of town.

Unions often keep deadbeats on the job. Those sleeping on duct-work, the alcohol/drug abusers, the constantly/absent and tardy, etc. I grew up in a UAW household - I know the stories, so save the BS.

Those people need to fired if they don't reform.

I understand it's the unions's job to try to keep those folks from getting fired - but that might mean it goes too far and causes companies to throw in the towel...

They didn't do it on account of the union at all... it's hard to argue against the fact that $3 an hour and $60 million less for a business that is 100% beholden to shareholders first is going to choose the $30 an hour in Indiana over $3 an hour in Mexico even if every worker was a perfect model employee. This is why Trump's deal was a net loss of 400-600 jobs.

Loyalty in today's businesses is to the money and the shareholders not the employees. In another era (say before Reagan) the thinking was retain employees for life and keep them loyal. Now the thought is getting the cheapest workforce and the employees are expendable. Nobody cares about loyalties to their employees, just whatever they can do for their stock.

[Turkeytop]

So what did Mr. Jones do to retain ANY company in Indy?

One could probably argue Mr. Jones drove Carrier out of town.

Unions often keep deadbeats on the job. Those sleeping on duct-work, the alcohol/drug abusers, the constantly/absent and tardy, etc. I grew up in a UAW household - I know the stories, so save the BS.

Those people need to fired if they don't reform.

I understand it's the unions's job to try to keep those folks from getting fired - but that might mean it goes too far and causes companies to throw in the towel...

You're deliberately missing the point. The point is that Trump lied his a** off. He lied during the campaign when he said that he would punish Companies that export jobs, and then gave Carrier a $7M gift. He lied to the workers at Carrier about the number of jobs being retained at the plant.

Then, in what has become typical for Trump, he started launching angry tweets when he was called out on it. Of course, like you, in his tweets Trump blamed it all on the workers. Anything to divert attention away from his lies.

[Deleted User 8570]

So what did Mr. Jones do to retain ANY company in Indy?

One could probably argue Mr. Jones drove Carrier out of town.

Unions often keep deadbeats on the job. Those sleeping on duct-work, the alcohol/drug abusers, the constantly/absent and tardy, etc. I grew up in a UAW household - I know the stories, so save the BS.

Those people need to fired if they don't reform.

I understand it's the unions's job to try to keep those folks from getting fired - but that might mean it goes too far and causes companies to throw in the towel...

You're deliberately missing the point. The point is that Trump lied his a** off. He lied during the campaign when he said that he would punish Companies that export jobs, and then gave Carrier a $7M gift. He lied to the workers at Carrier about the number of jobs being retained at the plant.

Then, in what has become typical for Trump, he started launching angry tweets when he was called out on it. Of course, like you, in his tweets Trump blamed it all on the workers. Anything to divert attention away from his lies.

Amen...

[Turkeytop]

As, a non American, I've always felt slightly uncomfortable weighing in in the subject of U.S. politics. But now that Trump has attacked the very Union of which I too am a member, I felt I had the right and the duty to respond.

[audiophile]

I have no issue with you responding TT - you have a good rapport with me.

I think Trump is a truth stretcher and a nut, but the union guy doesn't have a whole lot of room to talk either!

It happened on his watch, so he too shares the "credit", so to speak...

[audiophile]

PS I'm not opposed to unions, provided they're reasonable - fight for a reasonable wage and pension is fine - but the dead wood must go or the company will become unstable at some point.

This was the talk at the dinner table. They morons the union got back in were killing the company. This was from perspective of a line worker - not management.

[Deleted User 8570]

PS I'm not opposed to unions, provided they're reasonable - fight for a reasonable wage and pension is fine - but the dead wood must go or the company will become unstable at some point.

This was the talk at the dinner table. They morons the union got back in were killing the company. This was from perspective of a line worker - not management.

But we have no evidence (other that The Donald) that the USW local there did anything but fight for those workers. We have no evidence of dead wood there...

[Turkeytop]

I have no issue with you responding TT - you have a good rapport with me.

I think Trump is a truth stretcher and a nut, but the union guy doesn't have a whole lot of room to talk either!

It happened on his watch, so he too shares the "credit", so to speak...

First let me clarify something. When I said "He" attacked my Union, I meant Trump, not you. I don't know what you heard second, third or fifth hand around the dinner table, but I can tell you what I heard first hand. Over the weekend I participated in a conference call with Brother, Chuck Jones.

He told us that, just days before the Company announced the closure of the plant, Carrier had awarded the plant with special recognition as one of their most productive plants.

At the meeting with the Union, when the Company broke the news about its decision to close the plant, The Union asked the management if there was anything the Union could do to change that decision. The answer was "No." They told the Union that even if they agreed to work for $4/hr, like the Mexican workers, They would still make the move. They said that the costs of doing business in Mexico are lower.

In other words, they want a business environment free of labour standards, payroll taxes, health and safety regulations and environmental regulations. If they had just been patient for six more months, Trump will have created that for them.

[audiophile]

Ultimately what you heard about productivity is also probably hearsay.

Ok, so Trump used the Bully Pulpit and made Carrier think twice. He should be thanking him for saving SOME jobs. Ultimately the union failed

I don't think my parents we unreliable - they are the hardest working people you will ever meet. They appreciated union but saw it woes too (ever increasing dues, and keeping people that needed to be fired, etc.)

[Deleted User 8570]

Ultimately what heard about productivity is also probably hearsay.

Ok, so Trump used the Bully Pulpit and made Carrier think twice. He should be thanking him for saving SOME jobs.

I don't think my parents we unreliable - they are the hardest working people you will ever meet. They appreciated union but saw it woes too.

And I'm sure he's thankful the bully did... but... the bully did a poor job of it for all his bluster. NO MORE leaving apparently only applies to what he can "save". A great negotiator would have saved them all.

[Turkeytop]

Ultimately what you heard about productivity is also probably hearsay.

Ok, so Trump used the Bully Pulpit and made Carrier think twice. He should be thanking him for saving SOME jobs. Ultimately the union failed

I don't think my parents we unreliable - they are the hardest working people you will ever meet. They appreciated union but saw it woes too (ever increasing dues, and keeping people that needed to be fired, etc.)

Bully Pulpit? He didn't use his Bully Pulpit. He used Mike Pence's check book

Your parents work at Carrier? Then they already know that, contrary to popular belief, that particular plant does not produce air conditioners. They build furnaces. I have one of their Union made furnaces in my house and one of their Union made air conditioners outside. The furnaces will now be made in Mexico and shipped back into the U.S. During the campaign, Trump threatened to place a 35% tax on such imports. That was just another of his lies.

Sure, the Union is grateful for the jobs that Carrier has decided to keep in the plant, thanks to the largess of Indiana's tax payers. But none of that mitigates Trump's lies. The subject of this thread is "How would Trump Punish Companies For Leaving U.S.?" The answer is, he won't. Just another of his lies.

It's strange how someone who was "Never Trump" all through the campaign, is now prepared to defend his most egregious lies.

[audiophile]

I call it like it is. I said it was exaggeration and he was nuts.

Trump did do some good - he deserves a partial credit for some of that via the Bully Pulpit. Carrier felt the heat from it's customers because of Trump.

Bottom line - the union guy didn't get it done.

[Turkeytop]

If anyone deserves credit it's Gov. Pence and the generous taxpayers of Indiana. I hope your parent's jobs are among those that will stay.

[Turkeytop]

PS I'm not opposed to unions, provided they're reasonable - fight for a reasonable wage and pension is fine -

No Union can bargain unreasonable wages or pension benefits, because no Employer would agree to pay it.

[Deleted User 8570]

PS I'm not opposed to unions, provided they're reasonable - fight for a reasonable wage and pension is fine -

No Union can bargain unreasonable wages or pension benefits, because no Employer would agree to pay it.

Exactly... the employer will however do whatever it takes to bargain less than the union proposes... the game is getting as much as possible and trying to drive things higher...