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Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Some folks just cannot resist the urge to debate current issues of the day...here's the place to satisfy your craving. BE FOREWARNED - if you are an intellectual lightweight, you might find it a bit rough in here. This place is kinda like a never-ending edition of the McLaughlin Group. (Whatever happened to Mort Zuckerman, anyway?)
screen glare
Posts: 1843
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:05 am

Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by screen glare » Wed May 16, 2018 6:16 am

Kim will say “I’ve agreed to a summit date and place with Trump, recently made friends with South Korea - including several “firsts”, announced I’m closing a nuke test site.”

Trump will say “I’ve impetuously agreed to a summit with Kim, publically stated I’ll respectfully walk out if it’s not fruitful, installed *nuke ‘em hyper-hawk* Bolton as my right hand
man, and now stage a joint war rehearsal - which I already know Kim will understand to be a public provocation.”

So Kim made some departures from his same old routine. And Trump did not. He’s still the same old bully in a china closet.

At this point Killer Kim looks to the world to be more sincere and reasonable. While Trump looks to the world same as always -

all show, no go, i want dough, and a ho. On Faux.



bmw
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Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by bmw » Wed May 16, 2018 7:52 pm

screen glare wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 6:16 am
At this point Killer Kim looks to the world to be more sincere and reasonable.
Do you have any actual evidence to support this assertion?



906XJ
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Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by 906XJ » Thu May 17, 2018 12:03 am

Max Thunder is a yearly exercise that has been happening for... well... years.

Kim knew it was coming and said nothing... until now.

Trump and Co. didn't blink... the games continue. Keep fabricating b.s. it's amusing to those of us that actually pay attention.



screen glare
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Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by screen glare » Thu May 17, 2018 7:35 am

Trump’s entire summit idea - start to finish - for Trump serves two of his usual purposes:

1. It serves as a DISTRACTION - to keep the press and public from focusing on his overwhelming, self-caused, term-ending trap - Robert Mueller’s investigation into the historical Russian rigging of the last US presidential election, and Trump’s cooperation with Putin’s plot to do so.

2. It also serves to UP THE RATINGS on Trump’s daily reality TV show in which he stars. Everyone clearly sees (whether they admit it or not) that flailing within this visual format and framework is how he views his life. And in this “knee jerk call for a summit” season of his show - you’re now watching the current episode titled - The Mad King Makes Kim Mad.

Stay tuned. China is.



NS8401
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Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by NS8401 » Thu May 17, 2018 9:24 am

Trump made a mistake bragging before he had much done... now he’s painted himself into a corner. If the summit doesn’t happen he looks like a fool who couldn’t negotiate his way out of a paper bag... negotiation 101... leave yourself an out...



906XJ
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Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by 906XJ » Thu May 17, 2018 10:09 am

Kim called for the summit.



NS8401
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Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by NS8401 » Thu May 17, 2018 10:52 am

906XJ wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 10:09 am
Kim called for the summit.
Thing is that Trump has much to lose because of how he’s handled this whole thing.

I found this reasonably instructive, let me bounce this off you and get your thoughts...
The Trump administration is busily preparing for the President's scheduled June 12 summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un. Turns out, that might not be necessary. On Tuesday, Kim pulled out of a meeting with South Korean president Moon Jae-in, and announced that he might cancel the Trump meeting. The supposed source of his change of heart? He's angry about joint U.S.-South Korea military exercises, known as "Max Thunder," taking place this week along the Korean border.

It's hard to decide what is less surprising about this news. Is it that Kim keeps moving the goalposts? Or is it that he also announced that while he's willing to end nuclear testing, he's not willing to give up the nukes he already has? Whichever it is, Kim's "reason" for threatening to walk away is complete nonsense. The U.S. and South Korea conduct these exercises every year, at around the same time, and that fact was not a secret when discussions about a meeting first began. What's really happening is that Kim is running the same playbook that his father and grandfather both did. Hold out an olive branch, then keep moving it just out of reach in an effort to gain more and more concessions. This is why most presidents aren't even willing to talk to him; they (or their staff) have read a history book or two, and they know that dealing with Kim is like dealing with a slippery snake while standing on a slippery slope.

Kim now has Donald Trump just where he wants him. While it's possible that Trump is, or once was, the great negotiator he claimed to be on the campaign trail, he's made mistake after mistake with Kim that would have earned him a failing grade in Negotiation 101. Most obviously, the President has already bragged openly about how much he's accomplished vis-a-vis North Korea. Heck, he's already clearing space on his mantle for the Nobel Prize he expects to win. In other words, Trump has put himself in a position where he really needs this meeting, and Kim knows it. There may be no rule of negotiation more fundamental than: "Always be willing to walk away."

At this point, the Donald has three basic options. He can cancel this year's Max Thunder, which will not only project weakness, but will also signal to Kim that he has Trump wrapped around his finger. Or, Trump can give some other concession, in which case he plays Kim's game on Kim's terms. Or he can call the North Korean's bluff, and take a serious risk that Kim will tell the President to take his summit and shove it. The latter option is the correct one, but would be much easier if Trump had not put himself in the position where he (arguably) has more to lose than Kim does, and so cannot easily afford to walk away.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2018/S ... tml#item-2



bmw
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Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by bmw » Thu May 17, 2018 12:17 pm

How can anyone say how much Kim has to gain or lose when nobody really knows what it is that he wants in the first place?

If it is legitimacy or a "seat at the table" that Kim is after, then it is his recent actions that have put North Korea in a weaker bargaining position (not Trump's actions putting the US in a weak bargaining position).



906XJ
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Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by 906XJ » Thu May 17, 2018 12:43 pm

Yeah, I'm failing to see how Trump has anything to lose here. Kim asked for a summit, Trump agreed. Kim made overtures of denuclearization, Trump agreed. Now Trump will not cancel Max Thunder and has demanded NK nukes for dismantlement, the ball is in Kim's court.

If he refuses, then he is the one that looks like an insincere idiot and Trump looks like the guy that did everything he could to bring peace to the peninsula.

Of course, those that still suffer from TDS will convince themselves that NK holds all the cards and is playing the current administration like fools.



NS8401
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Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by NS8401 » Thu May 17, 2018 1:57 pm

bmw wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 12:17 pm
How can anyone say how much Kim has to gain or lose when nobody really knows what it is that he wants in the first place?

If it is legitimacy or a "seat at the table" that Kim is after, then it is his recent actions that have put North Korea in a weaker bargaining position (not Trump's actions putting the US in a weak bargaining position).
Kim seems to be running the same games as his father and grandfather I think. They saber rattle and the offer to talk (think 1994 I think it was) and then they pull back and then the process repeats itself until everybody is sick of it... so we have some evidence of his motivations even if he is taking the games to the next level as it were...



screen glare
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Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by screen glare » Thu May 17, 2018 5:56 pm

Kim has simply “let Trump be Trump.”
A mode known as auto-fool.
Trump winds his own key and the world steps back and watches him run.
His mouth.



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audiophile
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Location: Between 88 and 108 MHz.

Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by audiophile » Fri May 18, 2018 3:23 pm

Well at at least we got three Americans back if nothing else.


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

screen glare
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Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by screen glare » Fri May 18, 2018 5:37 pm

...who Trump used as props - and called them “the folks” instead of by their names - while he made their return all about himself - including his never ending obsession with “high tv ratings” whenever he’s on camera. NPD.



NS8401
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Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by NS8401 » Thu May 24, 2018 9:52 am

And Trump has canceled the summit... so now all his “Peace in Korea!” Tweets turn out to be for naught. He’s citing tremendous anger and open hostility” on Kim’s part...

Kim being Hostile? Duh. What a flimsy excuse. It would appear The Donald bit off more than he could chew, knew it and backed out. It is the right decision though, he was foolish to enter into the agreement to hold it in the first place.



bmw
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Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by bmw » Thu May 24, 2018 10:14 am

The person who really screwed this up was John Bolton.



NS8401
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Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by NS8401 » Thu May 24, 2018 10:30 am

bmw wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:14 am
The person who really screwed this up was John Bolton.
How do you feel about him? I’ve never been sold on his extreme hawkishness...



bmw
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Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by bmw » Thu May 24, 2018 10:50 am

I'm not exactly a big fan. His mention of the Libya model when publicly discussing North Korea was done either knowing that North Korea would react negatively (in which case it was sabotage of the talks) or was total incompetence not knowing what effect it would have on the ongoing talks. Neither is good. My guess is a little bit of both because I don't think he believes much in diplomacy, and he also doesn't want diplomacy to actually work with NK.

I may be way off on this, but just my 2 cents based on his horribly timed comments.



906XJ
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Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by 906XJ » Thu May 24, 2018 2:09 pm

Bolton is a power mad lunatic... he should have been put out to pasture long ago.

I think Trump screwed up in that he should have waited for Kim to cancel the meeting. Anyway, here's your Politico post NS... LOL! Trump's letter to Kim.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/ ... ter-607131



bmw
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Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by bmw » Thu May 24, 2018 2:35 pm

906XJ wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 2:09 pm
...I think Trump screwed up in that he should have waited for Kim to cancel the meeting...
That was my gut reaction at first, but that's just not how Trump operates. If he waits for Kim to cancel, then Kim is the one calling the shots and any attempt by Trump to bring Kim back to the table looks weak as Kim would undoubtedly make more demands before even claiming to agree to come back to the table.



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Lester The Nightfly
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Re: Lil Kim be getting jiggy wit it!

Post by Lester The Nightfly » Thu May 24, 2018 2:38 pm

bmw wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:50 am
I'm not exactly a big fan. His mention of the Libya model when publicly discussing North Korea was done either knowing that North Korea would react negatively (in which case it was sabotage of the talks) or was total incompetence not knowing what effect it would have on the ongoing talks. Neither is good. My guess is a little bit of both because I don't think he believes much in diplomacy, and he also doesn't want diplomacy to actually work with NK.

I may be way off on this, but just my 2 cents based on his horribly timed comments.
Actually, you're spot on with your comment.

Some months ago there was a journalist doing a piece for The New Yorker or Vanity Fair (I forget which) who had been cultivating sources and channels to gain access to some of the higher up's in the NK military and political circles. He had been working the story for years and out of the blue he got a call saying he would be allowed access for, I believe, a single week based on the thoughtful tenor of his work.

He came away with the clear understanding the number one thing that was holding up any talks between NK and the US was the not irrational fear on the part of the Koreans that it would lead to a situation similar to Libya. So much so that he felt NK would sooner unleash every bit of weaponry at their disposal rather than allow events to unfold as they did in Libya.

So basically Trump's National Security Adviser popped off on the one thing that would absolutely tank any agreements.

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