MSU vs. UM predictions

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Do any of you guys actually think a team keeps the same signals indefinitely? Do you not think they would at minimum change the signals when they are facing a team with a former player of theirs?

Of course not. They change regularly. Which is why Michigan apparently saw fit to send people out this season to get the latest info.

And NOW THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS they change their signs again and the Michigan advantage GOING FORWARD is gone. That was MY ONLY POINT with respect to my original post commenting on another post.
Not that Michigan didn't cheat. IF what has been suggested is true then they did cheat evidently. And I am fully willing to admit it could have been an advantage to some perhas large degree.
But I refuse to believe......

"So going forward, Michigan maintains an unfair advantage. All future opponents will have to put in extra time learning new signals or systems of signals. They'll use more wristbands, scripted drives, and they'll run players in and out more often with the plays.

I think teams can adjust quickly. It might be a bit of an issue for MSU on short notice but that's it.

I'll say it: Michigan didn't cheat. You can question the ethics all you want, but I'm not going to sit here and NOT challenge the bullshit claim that this amounts to cheating.

If they even got one play right because they knew exactly how to respond... then you lose Sparky.

Wrong as usual. Sign stealing is not illegal. Maybe stick to blindly defending the dementia patient in the WH and your duties as a moderator on michiganbusboard.com.

Going to games and conducting "research" is... I'll be at the OSU game this year. The only other game I was at was Appalachian State in 2007... given tickets because the people regarded it as a blowoff game. So you're welcome in advance... I rarely go to games my team wins.

Wrong again.

You are literally a Harbaugh on Fifth Avenue true blue believer huh?

Nope. There is a 1994 rule that says you can't travel AND record a game as a cost savings rule. For a person who claims to be a fan, you're awfully willing to shit on the program without applying ANY critical thinking.

And the allegation is that they traveled and recorded the games to steal the signs. Did you think they read smoke signals emenating from another stadium all the way from Ann Arbor? You don’t even need critical thinking for that one. You just need 1+1=2

No, it is not. You don't even have a grasp on basic facts of the story.

Uh… try again.

According to a report by Yahoo Sports, Michigan allegedly had people attending games of future opponents as well as possible College Football Playoff opponents to gather information on signs used to call plays on offense and defense.
If true, the No. 2 Wolverines would have violated NCAA Bylaw 11.6.1, which states: "Off-campus, in-person scouring [sic] of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited."

[Matt]

Do any of you guys actually think a team keeps the same signals indefinitely? Do you not think they would at minimum change the signals when they are facing a team with a former player of theirs?

Of course not. They change regularly. Which is why Michigan apparently saw fit to send people out this season to get the latest info.

And NOW THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS they change their signs again and the Michigan advantage GOING FORWARD is gone. That was MY ONLY POINT with respect to my original post commenting on another post.
Not that Michigan didn't cheat. IF what has been suggested is true then they did cheat evidently. And I am fully willing to admit it could have been an advantage to some perhas large degree.
But I refuse to believe......

"So going forward, Michigan maintains an unfair advantage. All future opponents will have to put in extra time learning new signals or systems of signals. They'll use more wristbands, scripted drives, and they'll run players in and out more often with the plays.

I think teams can adjust quickly. It might be a bit of an issue for MSU on short notice but that's it.

I'll say it: Michigan didn't cheat. You can question the ethics all you want, but I'm not going to sit here and NOT challenge the bullshit claim that this amounts to cheating.

If they even got one play right because they knew exactly how to respond... then you lose Sparky.

Wrong as usual. Sign stealing is not illegal. Maybe stick to blindly defending the dementia patient in the WH and your duties as a moderator on michiganbusboard.com.

Going to games and conducting "research" is... I'll be at the OSU game this year. The only other game I was at was Appalachian State in 2007... given tickets because the people regarded it as a blowoff game. So you're welcome in advance... I rarely go to games my team wins.

Wrong again.

You are literally a Harbaugh on Fifth Avenue true blue believer huh?

Nope. There is a 1994 rule that says you can't travel AND record a game as a cost savings rule. For a person who claims to be a fan, you're awfully willing to shit on the program without applying ANY critical thinking.

And the allegation is that they traveled and recorded the games to steal the signs. Did you think they read smoke signals emenating from another stadium all the way from Ann Arbor? You don’t even need critical thinking for that one. You just need 1+1=2

No, it is not. You don't even have a grasp on basic facts of the story.

Uh… try again.

According to a report by Yahoo Sports, Michigan allegedly had people attending games of future opponents as well as possible College Football Playoff opponents to gather information on signs used to call plays on offense and defense.
If true, the No. 2 Wolverines would have violated NCAA Bylaw 11.6.1, which states: "Off-campus, in-person scouring [sic] of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited."

The staffer recruited a bunch of non-Michigan affiliated 3rd parties to attend games and record sidelines of future Michigan opponents. That's the so-called "vast network." Wait until the story comes out of how he recruited the "scouts." It's Bud Fox level hustle that would make Gordon Gekko smile.

[Rate This]

Do any of you guys actually think a team keeps the same signals indefinitely? Do you not think they would at minimum change the signals when they are facing a team with a former player of theirs?

Of course not. They change regularly. Which is why Michigan apparently saw fit to send people out this season to get the latest info.

And NOW THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS they change their signs again and the Michigan advantage GOING FORWARD is gone. That was MY ONLY POINT with respect to my original post commenting on another post.
Not that Michigan didn't cheat. IF what has been suggested is true then they did cheat evidently. And I am fully willing to admit it could have been an advantage to some perhas large degree.
But I refuse to believe......

"So going forward, Michigan maintains an unfair advantage. All future opponents will have to put in extra time learning new signals or systems of signals. They'll use more wristbands, scripted drives, and they'll run players in and out more often with the plays.

I think teams can adjust quickly. It might be a bit of an issue for MSU on short notice but that's it.

I'll say it: Michigan didn't cheat. You can question the ethics all you want, but I'm not going to sit here and NOT challenge the bullshit claim that this amounts to cheating.

If they even got one play right because they knew exactly how to respond... then you lose Sparky.

Wrong as usual. Sign stealing is not illegal. Maybe stick to blindly defending the dementia patient in the WH and your duties as a moderator on michiganbusboard.com.

Going to games and conducting "research" is... I'll be at the OSU game this year. The only other game I was at was Appalachian State in 2007... given tickets because the people regarded it as a blowoff game. So you're welcome in advance... I rarely go to games my team wins.

Wrong again.

You are literally a Harbaugh on Fifth Avenue true blue believer huh?

Nope. There is a 1994 rule that says you can't travel AND record a game as a cost savings rule. For a person who claims to be a fan, you're awfully willing to shit on the program without applying ANY critical thinking.

And the allegation is that they traveled and recorded the games to steal the signs. Did you think they read smoke signals emenating from another stadium all the way from Ann Arbor? You don’t even need critical thinking for that one. You just need 1+1=2

No, it is not. You don't even have a grasp on basic facts of the story.

Uh… try again.

According to a report by Yahoo Sports, Michigan allegedly had people attending games of future opponents as well as possible College Football Playoff opponents to gather information on signs used to call plays on offense and defense.
If true, the No. 2 Wolverines would have violated NCAA Bylaw 11.6.1, which states: "Off-campus, in-person scouring [sic] of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited."

The staffer recruited a bunch of non-Michigan affiliated 3rd parties to attend games and record sidelines of future Michigan opponents. That's the so-called "vast network." Wait until the story comes out of how he recruited the "scouts." It's Bud Fox level hustle that would make Gordon Gekko smile.

Because the above paragraph should make it all better? “Yeah they did it but it’s ok because blah blah blah” is exactly what that says. You better get out on 5th Ave man…

[MotorCityRadioFreak]

Hamburgers, signs, scouting…really?

I like Michigan by 20 and like State cover.

[Matt]

RT trying to compare Jim Harbaugh to Donald Trump is fucked up. Get a grip...

[craig11152]

As Matt has pointed out as well as USA Today the actual stealing of signs is not addressed in the rules.
Whether the part about filming to help steal signs under these circumstances is a violation seems nebulous. That rule reads...

Rule 1, Article 11: "Prohibited Field Equipment."

"ARTICLE 11. Jurisdiction regarding the presence and location of communication equipment (cameras, sound devices, etc.) within the playing enclosure resides with game management personnel.

a. Television replay or monitor equipment is prohibited at the sidelines, press box or other locations within the playing enclosure for coaching purposes during the game. Motion pictures, any type of film, facsimile machines, videotapes, photographs, writing-transmission machines and computers may not be used by coaches or for coaching purposes any time during the game or between periods. Computers, tablets, etc. are not allowed in the coaching booth."

Reading that with the highlights I added suggests to me the issue is about game day advantages NOT about a potential future advantage,

What is clear is that traveling to in-person scout a future opponent is against the rules.
According to USA Today that rule was instituted in 1994 for the purpose of cost saving.

It was instituted as a cost-saving measure for programs that were paying to send assistant coaches and various staff members to future opponents’ games.

If the point of the rule was in fact cost saving I would argue that 29 years later it is archaic given the money in football today on both sides of the ledger.

So my question, given the above, and using a speeding analogy, how fast was Michigan going in a 25 mph zone? 29? 50? 80?

[Matt]

https://twitter.com/BudElliott3/status/ ... P4tkA&s=19

Make no mistake - the NCAA is coming after Harbaugh because he's vocally supported compensating players, which is a threat to that organization's existence.

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https://twitter.com/BudElliott3/status/ ... P4tkA&s=19

Make no mistake - the NCAA is coming after Harbaugh because he's vocally supported compensating players, which is a threat to that organization's existence.

Big schools could afford to send people to games and smaller programs could not therefore the larger programs would have an advantage. That’s why they passed the rule. Whoever came up with the “cost savings” thing is misguided. In fact… two or three seconds of critical thinking is all it took to figure out that wasn’t right the way it sounds and the reality is it’s intended to create equity among programs of multiple sizes and financial capabilities.

[Mega Hertz]

If I'm gathering the facts of this story correctly (and I'm confused by it), I believe that "taping", even for signals is one thing, but stealing signals in-game is worse. I can record your signals this week, but they can be totally different one month later. Do I have it right or am I missing something?

[Matt]

https://twitter.com/BudElliott3/status/ ... P4tkA&s=19

Make no mistake - the NCAA is coming after Harbaugh because he's vocally supported compensating players, which is a threat to that organization's existence.

Big schools could afford to send people to games and smaller programs could not therefore the larger programs would have an advantage. That’s why they passed the rule. Whoever came up with the “cost savings” thing is misguided. In fact… two or three seconds of critical thinking is all it took to figure out that wasn’t right the way it sounds and the reality is it’s intended to create equity among programs of multiple sizes and financial capabilities.

Which went out the door when NIL came in.

[Rate This]

https://twitter.com/BudElliott3/status/ ... P4tkA&s=19

Make no mistake - the NCAA is coming after Harbaugh because he's vocally supported compensating players, which is a threat to that organization's existence.

Big schools could afford to send people to games and smaller programs could not therefore the larger programs would have an advantage. That’s why they passed the rule. Whoever came up with the “cost savings” thing is misguided. In fact… two or three seconds of critical thinking is all it took to figure out that wasn’t right the way it sounds and the reality is it’s intended to create equity among programs of multiple sizes and financial capabilities.

Which went out the door when NIL came in.

Perhaps so but the rule remains. The other issue is that under NCAA rules a head coach is expected to be in charge of all aspects of his program... so the buck stops with Harbaugh for better or worse even if some staffer had a "brilliant" idea and friends in all kinds of places around the country.

[Honeyman]

Back to the impending massacre....in Vegas now and the line is up to 25.5.

[Matt]

Back to the impending massacre....in Vegas now and the line is up to 25.5.

Two things: 1) are you there? 2) what causes same day movement? Injury reports???

[Honeyman]

Back to the impending massacre....in Vegas now and the line is up to 25.5.

Two things: 1) are you there? 2) what causes same day movement? Injury reports???

Yes I am, at the Mirage Sports book. I meet .my UM grad sister here every year for the game. Been doing it over 30 years. Covid broke the streak. Loser (this year...me) has to wear an opposing team's gear all next day. NOTHING is worse than wearing that piss yellow shit.

Lotta reasons will change the line, but I just think it's same day money coming in. I think Michigan wins by 40, but cannot bet on them.

[MWmetalhead]

Dammit, Donovan Edwards. I wanted that fifth touchdown before the half!!! What a foolish penalty.

I'm obviously very happy with the 1st half as a whole.

Honeyman, I had no guts to make a prediction for this game, but so far yours looks pretty darn good.

MSU's 3rd down defense was terrible in the 1st half, and their passing game is a mess.