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Just how bad are the Lions?

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NS8401
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Re: Just how bad are the Lions?

Post by NS8401 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:26 am

bmw wrote:Another gripe I have - WHY IN THE HELL DOES ROBERTS KEEP BRINGING KICKOFFS OUT OF THE END ZONE? He has SUCKED at this all season - why does their special teams coach keep letting him do it? I would argue that turning point in the game (or at least the moment when it got away from them) was about mid 3rd quarter, Detroit only down 13-6 after holding Seattle to a field goal, and Roberts brings the kickoff out of the end zone to the 17 yard line. Quick 3 and out and the rest is history.
I would take the consistency of the 25 rather than run it out every time. As for the TD... I doubt they'd go for it again if they replayed that 4th down... that's what I was getting at... 6-3 not 10-3 at half. A bit of a different scenario.

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MWmetalhead
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Re: Just how bad are the Lions?

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:28 am

Nah, they would've gone for it again.

How did you like that play call by Jim Bob on 4th and 1 right before halftime?

How did you like his decision to abandon the run in the prior two games after it worked decently in the first half of those games?

Sorry, but his true colors are showing. Lions have scored a TOTAL of 13 points in the second halves of the last four games combined!!!!

I could give two shits about the officiating. Yes, there were two horrendous no calls. That's not the reason the Lions lost. Seattle is a better team. Period. Their play on the field reflected that fact. The Lions are a C team who played like a D- or F team.

Stafford's numbers against teams who made the postseason are horrendous. Not suggesting that's all on him. It's evidence of an overall pathetic organization.
102.9 The Hog in Milwaukee KICKS ASS!!! Love the 90's weekends. (The playlist during the work week is damn good, too!)

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MWmetalhead
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Re: Just how bad are the Lions?

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:25 am

This stupid organization wasted a 1st round pick on Eric Ebron.

This stupid organization wasted a 1st round pick on Laken Tomlinson, who sucks so bad (and is so horrendously out of shape) that he often doesn't start on an O-Line that isn't very good to begin with!!!
102.9 The Hog in Milwaukee KICKS ASS!!! Love the 90's weekends. (The playlist during the work week is damn good, too!)

bmw
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Re: Just how bad are the Lions?

Post by bmw » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:42 am

MWmetalhead wrote:How did you like that play call by Jim Bob on 4th and 1 right before halftime?

How did you like his decision to abandon the run in the prior two games after it worked decently in the first half of those games?
I'm not saying he hasn't made some really bad decisions, I'm just saying they have far bigger problems than that. Just like how the officials made some bad no calls (and especially no-calls) but those in and of themselves didn't cost Detroit the game.

Also RE: Eric Ebron - how do you classify him as a wasted pick? He ranks #7 in the league in yards per game at 54.7 and #10 in the league in receptions at 61. He also has ZERO career fumbles. Hard for me to say he was a wasted pick when he's a top 10 tight end in the NFL based on raw receptions and yards.

bmw
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Re: Just how bad are the Lions?

Post by bmw » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:47 am

Another gripe that I haven't heard ANYBODY mention, and that is Detroit's clock management right at the end of the first half.

Situation: Detroit kicks off to Seattle with 0:20 seconds left, Seattle stupidly brings it out of the end zone and only gets to the 12 yard line. Detroit has all 3 timeouts. Seattle takes a knee at 0:17. Detroit COULD have used all 3 timeouts to force a Seattle punt from deep in their own territory with a few seconds left, fair caught the punt with no time left on the clock, and sent out Prater for a long attempt at a free kick. Yes this is an obscure rule that is rarely used but this was the EXACT situation it was designed for. The fact that nobody on the Detroit sideline was seemingly aware of this is troubling.

NS8401
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Re: Just how bad are the Lions?

Post by NS8401 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:11 am

bmw wrote:Another gripe that I haven't heard ANYBODY mention, and that is Detroit's clock management right at the end of the first half.

Situation: Detroit kicks off to Seattle with 0:20 seconds left, Seattle stupidly brings it out of the end zone and only gets to the 12 yard line. Detroit has all 3 timeouts. Seattle takes a knee at 0:17. Detroit COULD have used all 3 timeouts to force a Seattle punt from deep in their own territory with a few seconds left, fair caught the punt with no time left on the clock, and sent out Prater for a long attempt at a free kick. Yes this is an obscure rule that is rarely used but this was the EXACT situation it was designed for. The fact that nobody on the Detroit sideline was seemingly aware of this is troubling.
Why are you naive enough to think Seattle is friendly enough to take more knees against us if we start calling timeouts? They would have ran that 17 seconds out -- literally. We never would have had a snowballs chance in hell at getting to the point of a free kick being makeable. You're grasping at straws. That's why nobody came up with it but you.

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MWmetalhead
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Re: Just how bad are the Lions?

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:29 am

Also RE: Eric Ebron - how do you classify him as a wasted pick? He ranks #7 in the league in yards per game at 54.7 and #10 in the league in receptions at 61. He also has ZERO career fumbles.
#10 out of 32 players is good but definitely not great.

My point is this - he would've still been on the board in the third round. The Lions could've "had their cake & eaten it, too," in other words.

Where does he rank relative to his peers with regard to percentage of dropped passes?
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... roEr00.htm

Yes, he's performed much better in that area these past two seasons, but he's still not great. And the problem is a lot of the passes he drops ARE RIGHT IN HIS FRIGGIN' HANDS!!!

I will say he is trending in the right direction. 2016 was a good season for him - I don't dismiss that. But he's also had faults. Worthy of a 3rd round pick? Yes, absolutely. First round? Absolutely not.
102.9 The Hog in Milwaukee KICKS ASS!!! Love the 90's weekends. (The playlist during the work week is damn good, too!)

NS8401
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Re: Just how bad are the Lions?

Post by NS8401 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:56 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Also RE: Eric Ebron - how do you classify him as a wasted pick? He ranks #7 in the league in yards per game at 54.7 and #10 in the league in receptions at 61. He also has ZERO career fumbles.
#10 out of 32 players is good but definitely not great.

My point is this - he would've still been on the board in the third round. The Lions could've "had their cake & eaten it, too," in other words.

Where does he rank relative to his peers with regard to percentage of dropped passes?
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... roEr00.htm

Yes, he's performed much better in that area these past two seasons, but he's still not great. And the problem is a lot of the passes he drops ARE RIGHT IN HIS FRIGGIN' HANDS!!!

I will say he is trending in the right direction. 2016 was a good season for him - I don't dismiss that. But he's also had faults. Worthy of a 3rd round pick? Yes, absolutely. First round? Absolutely not.
Every drop is right in the players hands...

bmw
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Re: Just how bad are the Lions?

Post by bmw » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:59 am

NS8401 wrote:Why are you naive enough to think Seattle is friendly enough to take more knees against us if we start calling timeouts? They would have ran that 17 seconds out -- literally. We never would have had a snowballs chance in hell at getting to the point of a free kick being makeable. You're grasping at straws. That's why nobody came up with it but you.
They had already taken a knee at 0:17. That runs the clock down to 0:16 or 0:15. So its already 2nd down. It is not easy to burn 0:15 seconds of clock in just 2 plays, at least not if you're being conservative, and especially when you've already mentally headed to the locker room. So it would have most likely made it to 4th down with at least a few seconds left. At that point, Seattle has a tough decision to make - try to burn those last few seconds and risk a turnover on downs deep in their own territory with 0:01 second left, or punt. My point is, there was virtually no danger whatsoever in taking those timeouts because Seattle was almost guaranteed to not score, but Detroit at least had a chance at 3 points before the half.
Last edited by bmw on Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

bmw
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Re: Just how bad are the Lions?

Post by bmw » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:04 am

MWmetalhead wrote:My point is this - he would've still been on the board in the third round. The Lions could've "had their cake & eaten it, too," in other words....Worthy of a 3rd round pick? Yes, absolutely. First round? Absolutely not.
Are you kidding me? Every pre-draft board I can find on google had Ebron listed as a mid first-round pick, as high as #8 overall. And Detroit took him at #10. It is easy to look back and say he wasn't worthy of that pick, but at the time, that is where he was ranked. No way he would have still been available in the 3rd round. Early 2nd round at the absolute latest.

That said, I generally agree with the remainder of your assessment on Ebron.

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MWmetalhead
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Re: Just how bad are the Lions?

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:18 am

Are you kidding me? Every pre-draft board I can find on google had Ebron listed as a mid first-round pick, as high as #8 overall.
A guy with a chronic case of the "drop-sies" in college? Puh-leeeese.

Are these the same "experts" who thought Brady Quinn was going to go super high in the first round years ago?

The Lions had far more pressing needs at the time. Most (but not all) folks characterized the pick at the time as being anywhere from "questionable" to "stupid."
102.9 The Hog in Milwaukee KICKS ASS!!! Love the 90's weekends. (The playlist during the work week is damn good, too!)

NS8401
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Re: Just how bad are the Lions?

Post by NS8401 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:58 pm

bmw wrote:
NS8401 wrote:Why are you naive enough to think Seattle is friendly enough to take more knees against us if we start calling timeouts? They would have ran that 17 seconds out -- literally. We never would have had a snowballs chance in hell at getting to the point of a free kick being makeable. You're grasping at straws. That's why nobody came up with it but you.
They had already taken a knee at 0:17. That runs the clock down to 0:16 or 0:15. So its already 2nd down. It is not easy to burn 0:15 seconds of clock in just 2 plays, at least not if you're being conservative, and especially when you've already mentally headed to the locker room. So it would have most likely made it to 4th down with at least a few seconds left. At that point, Seattle has a tough decision to make - try to burn those last few seconds and risk a turnover on downs deep in their own territory with 0:01 second left, or punt. My point is, there was virtually no danger whatsoever in taking those timeouts because Seattle was almost guaranteed to not score, but Detroit at least had a chance at 3 points before the half.
They get to :16, lions call timeout, Seattle runs backwards and sideways burning 7 seconds, does so again getting us down to :02 and then punts running out the clock. Not enough time.

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Motown322
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Re: Just how bad are the Lions?

Post by Motown322 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:01 pm

Good teams have the luxury of drafting a TE in the first round. The Lions drafted Ebron at #10 when they KNEW they'd completely fucked themselves on the Suh deal by continually kicking the can down the road (on franchise tags and contract restructuring and whatnot and knowing that it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that they couldn't afford to resign him) and Aaron Donald was sitting there. You think he could've helped stop the run last night??? :razz Not to mention the fact that they had just signed their first round TE from 5 years earlier to a contract extension.

It was a completely wasted pick on a guy who is never going to be any better than a mid-pack TE in this league (spin the numbers however you'd like, that's his ceiling).

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moldyoldie
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Re: Just how bad are the Lions?

Post by moldyoldie » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:34 am

Concerning drafting Ebron, let's not forget that our incoming offensive coordinator that season was Joe Lombardi, longtime successful offensive assistant and quarterbacks coach with the Saints. Ebron was going to be for the Lions what Jimmy Graham was for the Saints -- an H-back of sorts who'd line up anywhere and give defenses fits. The fact that Lombardi and Stafford never jibed was problematic in hindsight.

Also, not often accentuated of late is that the Lions' offense was decimated by injuries, the most severely felt being those to RBs Ameer Abdullah at the season's beginning and Theo Riddick -- the latter being an important receiver out of the backfield. Defenses had absolutely zero respect for our running game. Combine all that with Stafford's finger injury and I think it was quite an achievement to reach the playoffs at all! Remember, we were positioned as the second playoff seed in the NFC as late as three or four weeks ago before Stafford's finger injury, a result of playing mostly mistake-free football against mostly mediocre teams.

I also have to agree that the Lions are getting zero respect from the refs. That veteran receiver Anquan Boldin would receive personal foul and unsportsman-like conduct penalties while Stafford was picked up and dropped like a hay bale without a call was beyond the pale! :evil: Besides, I think there are far too many pass interference calls being assessed - let them play fergodsakes!
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