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"Riding Amtrak is Dangerous"

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Plate Cap
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"Riding Amtrak is Dangerous"

Post by Plate Cap » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:46 pm

Per your current sig line "Riding Amtrak is Dangerous"

2018-02-09_1441.png
2018-02-09_1441.png (15.2 KiB) Viewed 1789 times
This includes people getting hit by trains. Purely Darwin at work there; there is no reasonable excuse for pedestrian being in a position to be hit by a train.

Perhaps your sig line could me more accurate with the preamble of "Judging from Media Attention, "

Would you suggest pipe line travel instead?

Most people drive. While being transported, most people die that way.


The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

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MWmetalhead
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Re: "Riding Amtrak is Dangerous"

Post by MWmetalhead » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:41 pm

Out of curiosity, is that graph solely for the United States?

People don't ride Amtrak to drop the kids off to school or to perform daily errands. There are probably multiple thousand times more passenger car rides in the U.S. than there are Amtrak train rides in any given year. Thus, a direct comparison to train travel fatalities to passenger car fatalities is a bit disingenuous.

Look at rail travel vs. air travel from 2009 onward. Air travel fatalities are significantly lower than rail travel. Moreover, if one were to draw a regression line starting with the 2009 data through the 2015 data, the trend for rail travel ain't pretty (even though 2014 & 2015 were better years than 2012 & 2013).

Pipe travel sounds fun, btw. :hat


Radio's downfall has been under-investing in its core competency and becoming distracted by delusions of grandeur by thinking development of a half-assed national digital strategy will somehow put it on par with the Facebooks and Googles of the world.

bmw
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Re: "Riding Amtrak is Dangerous"

Post by bmw » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:03 pm

Some interesting stats - deaths per 1 billion passenger miles

212 - motorcycles
7.3 - Cars/Light Trucks
0.43 - Trains (all)
0.15 - Trains (passengers only)
0.11 - Buses
0.07 - Airlines

https://journalistsresource.org/studies ... modes-time

So you're 3000x (yes, three thousand times) more likely to be killed on a motorcycle per mile driven than on an airplane per mile flown. I'll ask again as I did in another thread on this topic - why are motorcycles even still legal? I also know breaking this down further, with helmet vs without helmet, the numbers would be comparable to 2500x airline with helmet and 3500x without.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: "Riding Amtrak is Dangerous"

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:35 pm

Gotta love Amtrak!
A 72-year-old woman who has relied on Amtrak for years wants to warn other passengers after a nightmare 18-hour trip...
http://woodtv.com/2018/02/09/visually-i ... -help-her/

As far as motorcycle riding is concerned, one of the most idiotic things the morons in Lansing have done over the past 50 years was to repeal the mandatory helmet law.

I don't understand why motorcycle riders & passengers don't need to wear helmets when it's mandatory for all car passengers to wear seat belts.

I certainly would not be supportive of a ban of all motorcycles, but I certainly think "crotch rocket"-style motorcycles should be made illegal.


Radio's downfall has been under-investing in its core competency and becoming distracted by delusions of grandeur by thinking development of a half-assed national digital strategy will somehow put it on par with the Facebooks and Googles of the world.

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Re: "Riding Amtrak is Dangerous"

Post by Plate Cap » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:41 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:35 pm
Gotta love Amtrak!
A 72-year-old woman who has relied on Amtrak for years wants to warn other passengers after a nightmare 18-hour trip...
http://woodtv.com/2018/02/09/visually-i ... -help-her/
This story has all the essential elements of someone trolling for a big payout. The current media trend of 'oh-poor-me', David v. Goliath, etc.

Yes, it's sad that this happened. However, if the woman is visually impaired as stated, I'm sure she has experienced similar situations. She "assumed" the help button didn't work, and we magically forgive her for not even trying it....she did not speak out to other passengers.

Can you IMAGINE the time delay of calling "1-800-Amtrak" and expecting them to stop a train? Imagine all the nifty media stories that would occur if pranksters were successful in stopping trains that way. Imagine a poor blind woman on her way to surgery to return her sight on an Amtrak train stopped for hours due to a prank call.

They imply the train 'went all the way to Chicago'....did they expect to stop somewhere outside of Gary, IN, or along a fence on Chicago's far south side....even a better "oh, poor her" story.

Regrettable, but way too many holes in it. Seems like Amtrak tried to make it right and got no credit in the story of it.

Everyone wants something light and not too painful to qualify for the great big 1=800-call-sam payout. This sounds like a case. Getting tired of hearing about such situations. Life has its bumps.


The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

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Re: "Riding Amtrak is Dangerous"

Post by Plate Cap » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:50 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:41 pm
Out of curiosity, is that graph solely for the United States?


Don't know....I think it was Wikipedia

MWmetalhead wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:41 pm

Look at rail travel vs. air travel from 2009 onward. Air travel fatalities are significantly lower than rail travel. Moreover, if one were to draw a regression line starting with the 2009 data through the 2015 data, the trend for rail travel ain't pretty (even though 2014 & 2015 were better years than 2012 & 2013).
Here your point is very well taken. Things have gone to hell with Amtrak in the past few years. My point is sometimes you, ahem, with all due respect, um....er.....miss all shades of grey. Amtrak is in need of improvement.....so are all of the airlines. I just think your brush is a little....um....broad.

You can't expect much more with something run by the government. Perhaps we are being too romantic and are looking too fondly at the past, and should simply eliminate train travel. This is entirely possible. 'course, then we would be accused of treating the poor visually impaired lady who can't afford something else poorly, and line her up for a big payout.
MWmetalhead wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:41 pm

Pipe travel sounds fun, btw. :hat
One of the Bond movies featured that. It does look interesting. Can't be any worse than the cramped trans-Pacific flight I took yesterday.


The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

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Re: "Riding Amtrak is Dangerous"

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:50 pm

Rail travel in this country is a trainwreck (pun intended) compared to most nations in Europe and economically advanced nations in the Orient.

The trains are slow. There are too many stops along key routes. Look at how many damn times the Wolverine line stops in SE Michigan alone - do we really need Amtrak stations in Pontiac *and* Troy *and* Royal Oak? I mean, the Troy and Royal Oak stations are only about 5 miles apart! How stupid is that?

There are too many grade level crossings, leading to increased risk of car-train collisions.

In recent years, derailments & engineer error seem to have worsened. (I don't have data to back up that gut feeling on my part, unfortunately.)

Rail travel could be - and should be - great, but in the U.S., we lag behind many other nations with similarly advanced economies.

I do agree with you that the lady featured in the WOOD-TV story seems to be overreacting, but the fact the help buttons in at least some of the trains are non-operational and that proper accommodations weren't provided to a disabled passenger should be cause for concern. (The folks in Chicago, to their credit, did seem to respond appropriately & professionally.)

And, yes, the airlines do a truly lousy job at customer service. Man, the stories I could share. Not all bad, though.


Radio's downfall has been under-investing in its core competency and becoming distracted by delusions of grandeur by thinking development of a half-assed national digital strategy will somehow put it on par with the Facebooks and Googles of the world.

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Re: "Riding Amtrak is Dangerous"

Post by TC Talks » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:45 am

I fly a couple hundred thousand miles a year and I can tell you that things have improved over the last 2 years on airplanes.

Delta and Southwest are hands-down the two best carriers. American has been struggling but now that the merger is complete they are working to improve their service. United has gone more towards a low price low frills concept and they deserve just about all the bad press they seem to be getting.

What is weak are the commuter services each major provides. Flying from Detroit to Dallas or New York or Boston will be fine but traveling from Detroit to Traverse City or Flint or Marquette has gotten steadily worse on every carrier. I have spoken with Representatives at Delta and my friend at the US Department of Transportation and I am under the impression this will continue to be the weakest link.

As for Amtrak. I have less experience but I have taken trains from coast to coast, from Dallas to Chicago and the locals in Michigan. I've also taken trains extensively throughout Europe and in Asia. I would say the food is about the same on every rail trip I've taken. In the US they try to present it as Gourmet which is laughable. In Europe they expect you to bring your own food if you want something nicer than a snack.

European and Asian rail systems are welded tracks dedicated only to passenger service. In the United States The Rail lines are owned by the freight haulers and Amtrak often takes a secondary position on the lines. This means the ride is rough, and travel times are unpredictable if a train is delayed. It's not quite fair to compare the US to other countries when it comes to rail. For starters we don't have the population density other countries have. The number of people per mile is substantially lower here thus making it more expensive to build the infrastructure. The highway system in other countries is also not as convenient as it is in the US. You can thank General Motors for this, they were very influential at the beginning of the Eisenhower highway system to ensure that rail never had a chance.

At this point, the US should have a very strong rail system on the Eastern seaboard. We should have bullet trains and some of the same things you find in other countries. It might be reasonable to see high speed from Chicago to other Midwestern cities. But I wouldn't expect to ever see rail as established here as it is elsewhere.

Rail is in jeopardy in Europe, as low cost carriers like EasyJet and Ryanair have made it cheaper to fly than take the train. But it is still a culturally accepted mode of transportation.

If you ever take the train, pay attention to how many people on that train use it as part of their entire way of life. There's a whole new breed of vagabonds who work discounts and sales to ride the rails almost perpetually. I have spoken to people who have ridden for 3 or 4 years taking a couple days off here and there. It's a very interesting part of America.


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