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Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

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Turkeytop
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Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by Turkeytop » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:01 pm

Company fires about 50 workers for refusing to get flu shot

A Duluth-based health system has fired about 50 employees who refused to get a flu shot.

Essentia Health announced last month that employees would be required to get vaccinated for influenza to help keep patients from getting infected, or else receive a religious or medical exemption. The deadline was Monday.

Essentia says 99 percent of the company's 13,900 eligible employees have either gotten the shot, received an exemption or are getting an exemption.

The United Steelworkers filed an injunction to try to delay the policy from going into effect, but a federal judge denied that request. Minnesota Public Radio reports at least two other unions are filing grievances on behalf of workers who lost their jobs.

Essentia has 15 hospitals and 75 clinics in Minnesota, Idaho, North Dakota and Wisconsin

http://www.king5.com/news/company-fires ... /493721687

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craig11152
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by craig11152 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:41 am

I have no problem with the firing. If you want to work in health care spreading disease should not be an employee option. I put a flu shot up there with washing your hands, wearing surgical gloves and sterilizing instruments.
Finally, he switched to a bone saw to finish the job, and at 9:17 p.m., Mountain time, the head of the greatest hitter who ever lived had been sliced off.

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audiophile
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by audiophile » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:08 am

I've never had flu shot, and I don't get Flu very often. I think the last time was 1995. I think it is scam.
Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

NS8401
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by NS8401 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:17 am

audiophile wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:08 am
I've never had flu shot, and I don't get Flu very often. I think the last time was 1995. I think it is scam.
You’re currently healthy, congratulations.

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craig11152
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by craig11152 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:28 am

audiophile wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:08 am
I've never had flu shot, and I don't get Flu very often. I think the last time was 1995. I think it is scam.

Seems like a pretty wide spread scam either involving or fooling a whole lot of educated people.
I assume you believe the concept of vaccines works in general? Polio, Smallpox, rabies, chickenpox, tetanus, etc ?
The problem with flu vaccines is the number of, and speed of evolution of influenza viruses makes picking the right vaccine year to year an educated guess. So it works when the vaccine matches the virus. That obviously doesn't happen all the time. But the positive way outweighs the negative in trying every year.
Its like seat belts in a car...they don't always prevent injury or death and sometimes in rare occasions somebody may have died BECAUSE they wore a seatbelt but for the most part the good of buckling up outweighs the bad.
Finally, he switched to a bone saw to finish the job, and at 9:17 p.m., Mountain time, the head of the greatest hitter who ever lived had been sliced off.

NS8401
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by NS8401 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:10 am

craig11152 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:28 am
audiophile wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:08 am
I've never had flu shot, and I don't get Flu very often. I think the last time was 1995. I think it is scam.

Seems like a pretty wide spread scam either involving or fooling a whole lot of educated people.
I assume you believe the concept of vaccines works in general? Polio, Smallpox, rabies, chickenpox, tetanus, etc ?
The problem with flu vaccines is the number of, and speed of evolution of influenza viruses makes picking the right vaccine year to year an educated guess. So it works when the vaccine matches the virus. That obviously doesn't happen all the time. But the positive way outweighs the negative in trying every year.
Its like seat belts in a car...they don't always prevent injury or death and sometimes in rare occasions somebody may have died BECAUSE they wore a seatbelt but for the most part the good of buckling up outweighs the bad.
Exactly... it’s akin to buying health insurance after you get sick... that’s not the point of having insurance or getting the flu shot... “I won’t get sick” is only going to last so long...

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craig11152
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by craig11152 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:07 am

For clarification on my part.... the issue is these people are presumably working around patients who may already be sick, weakened immune systems etc. At that point your right as a healthy citizen to risk getting the flu is trumped by the right of the patient to have the safest possible environment for their health.
Finally, he switched to a bone saw to finish the job, and at 9:17 p.m., Mountain time, the head of the greatest hitter who ever lived had been sliced off.

NS8401
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by NS8401 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:16 am

craig11152 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:07 am
For clarification on my part.... the issue is these people are presumably working around patients who may already be sick, weakened immune systems etc. At that point your right as a healthy citizen to risk getting the flu is trumped by the right of the patient to have the safest possible environment for their health.
Would it be any more reasonable to refuse a measles vaccine and try to work around sick people?

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craig11152
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by craig11152 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:29 am

NS8401 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:16 am
craig11152 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:07 am
For clarification on my part.... the issue is these people are presumably working around patients who may already be sick, weakened immune systems etc. At that point your right as a healthy citizen to risk getting the flu is trumped by the right of the patient to have the safest possible environment for their health.
Would it be any more reasonable to refuse a measles vaccine and try to work around sick people?
Not in mind. But I suppose the chances of a measle outbreak is smaller than the flu.
From a April 14, 2017 Michigan Department of Health and Human Services news release....
Last year, Michigan had one case of measles. From 2001 – 2012, the average number of measles cases in the Unites States per year was about 60. But in recent years there have been more, which is of great concern to public health authorities. In 2014, there were 667 cases in the U.S. including five cases in Michigan. The vast majority of people who get measles have not been vaccinated against it.
Finally, he switched to a bone saw to finish the job, and at 9:17 p.m., Mountain time, the head of the greatest hitter who ever lived had been sliced off.

NS8401
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by NS8401 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:33 am

craig11152 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:29 am
NS8401 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:16 am
craig11152 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:07 am
For clarification on my part.... the issue is these people are presumably working around patients who may already be sick, weakened immune systems etc. At that point your right as a healthy citizen to risk getting the flu is trumped by the right of the patient to have the safest possible environment for their health.
Would it be any more reasonable to refuse a measles vaccine and try to work around sick people?
Not in mind. But I suppose the chances of a measle outbreak is smaller than the flu.
From a April 14, 2017 Michigan Department of Health and Human Services news release....
Last year, Michigan had one case of measles. From 2001 – 2012, the average number of measles cases in the Unites States per year was about 60. But in recent years there have been more, which is of great concern to public health authorities. In 2014, there were 667 cases in the U.S. including five cases in Michigan. The vast majority of people who get measles have not been vaccinated against it.
The rise in Measles has been widely covered after it was nearly eradicated... I don’t think a medical system could ethically put a patient at risk who might not be vaccinated by allowing an unvaccinated employee to stay unvaccinated. Far stranger things have happened than having someone cross paths in a hospital with a fellow unvaccinated and infected person. Especially if the numbers are going up over time even if they are admittedly small now...

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craig11152
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by craig11152 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:12 pm

For my personal well being I want my airplane pilot sober and my health care workers fully inoculated
Finally, he switched to a bone saw to finish the job, and at 9:17 p.m., Mountain time, the head of the greatest hitter who ever lived had been sliced off.

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Turkeytop
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by Turkeytop » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:00 pm

I'm a real believer in the Flu shot. We get ours every year. Just got mine this week. But I'm not comfortable with the idea compelling employees to have it, as a condition of employment. Seems like a slippery slope. What next?

Better idea would be to provide an incentive. For me, good health is the only incentive I need. But maybe some employees need something more positive, like lower deductibles for their benefits. Or maybe something a simple as a gift card for a restaurant.

906XJ
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by 906XJ » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:09 pm

They are healthcare workers and they were allowed medical or religious exemptions.

The fifty that got canned were just too lazy or bullheaded to claim an exemption or get the shot.

No sympathy here.

NS8401
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by NS8401 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:17 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:00 pm
I'm a real believer in the Flu shot. We get ours every year. Just got mine this week. But I'm not comfortable with the idea compelling employees to have it, as a condition of employment. Seems like a slippery slope. What next?

Better idea would be to provide an incentive. For me, good health is the only incentive I need. But maybe some employees need something more positive, like lower deductibles for their benefits. Or maybe something a simple as a gift card for a restaurant.
Maybe I should apply for a religious exemption for my CDL and DOT Med Card...

There are requirements of many other kinds that are contingent to employment at certain places... while a yahoo on an assembly line somewhere may not have many, the folks in a more technical or licensed field most certainly do. If we allow religious and medical exemptions to get people out of disease prevention what’s next? That’s the real question... how about a person who wants to be a teacher, can’t pass the certification test but says “my hand frequently cramps, I need a medical exemption”... this gets stupid in a hurry...

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craig11152
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by craig11152 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:25 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:00 pm
I'm a real believer in the Flu shot. We get ours every year. Just got mine this week. But I'm not comfortable with the idea compelling employees to have it, as a condition of employment. Seems like a slippery slope. What next?

Better idea would be to provide an incentive. For me, good health is the only incentive I need. But maybe some employees need something more positive, like lower deductibles for their benefits. Or maybe something a simple as a gift card for a restaurant.
If it was strictly for their own well being I would agree. But the way I see it is its not an issue of a healthy employee, it's an issue of patient safety.
Finally, he switched to a bone saw to finish the job, and at 9:17 p.m., Mountain time, the head of the greatest hitter who ever lived had been sliced off.

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Turkeytop
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by Turkeytop » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:09 pm

I'm a believer in the incentives approach. I'm retired now, but still covered by benefits from my employer. Most of the benefits come with deductibles or co pays. But our employer also offers an optional wellness program. By participating in the program, employees and retirees can earn credits to offset the deductibles and co pays.

My wife and I don't participate in the entire program, but just by getting an annual checkup by our Doctor and by getting our flu shots, (things we do anyway) we earn enough credits that we're never a cent out of pocket for any of our benefits. Nobody gets fired for not participating but the incentives for participating are too good to pass up.

NS8401
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by NS8401 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:27 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:09 pm
I'm a believer in the incentives approach. I'm retired now, but still covered by benefits from my employer. Most of the benefits come with deductibles or co pays. But our employer also offers an optional wellness program. By participating in the program, employees and retirees can earn credits to offset the deductibles and co pays.

My wife and I don't participate in the entire program, but just by getting an annual checkup by our Doctor and by getting our flu shots, (things we do anyway) we earn enough credits that we're never a cent out of pocket for any of our benefits. Nobody gets fired for not participating but the incentives for participating are too good to pass up.
Right but that’s apples and oranges... this is for safety of patients... that’s for your own sake... an incentives approach wouldn’t work here...

906XJ
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by 906XJ » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:16 pm

Here's an incentive... get the shot or lose your job.

Simple.

NS8401
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by NS8401 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:40 pm

906XJ wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:16 pm
Here's an incentive... get the shot or lose your job.

Simple.
Precisely...

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craig11152
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Re: Employer Fires Employees Who Refuse Flu Shot

Post by craig11152 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:03 pm

^^^ yes
Finally, he switched to a bone saw to finish the job, and at 9:17 p.m., Mountain time, the head of the greatest hitter who ever lived had been sliced off.

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