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Texas mass shooting

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MWmetalhead
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Re: Texas mass shooting

Post by MWmetalhead » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:11 am

White nationalist terrorism is becoming a big problem in this country, and it needs to be rooted out.



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Bryce
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Re: Texas mass shooting

Post by Bryce » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:54 am

TC Talks wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:50 pm
I'm all for starting with curbing ownership of assault rifles.
Define "assault rifle" and what characteristics make it so please. Frankly, any rifle that is used to kill a bunch of people is a "assault rifle", it was used in a deadly assault.

Personally, if more regulations are going to be placed on guns of any kind, it might be worthwhile to consider treating all guns and the ownership thereof like Michigan treats concealed carry. Background check, instruction class (with instructors that are trained to spot potential mental illness problems) and renewal every four years.

The only issue that I have with the above is that gun owners would be in a federal database along with the number and type of guns they own. Not sure I'm comfortable with that.

I would really like to see some background information on the type of childhood both of these relatively young mass murderers had. In the Ohio case, information is starting to come out that there were some major trouble signs in high school.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

Y M Ionhere
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Re: Texas mass shooting

Post by Y M Ionhere » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:22 am

Turkeytop wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:07 pm
Bryce wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:58 am
I can't help but think that video games designed for the player to kill as many people as possible, in the shortest amount of time, that are played for hours on end by adolescents and teens can't help things either.

We had lots of guns in the community I grew up in. We even had a shooting club at our high school. No one ever killed or shot anyone.

Somewhere along the way, something changed. Let's figure out just what that is.

Could be, you have wackos running around who believe they have your President's permission.
What a ridiculous comment that doesnt belong with the serious responses on here.
Just because you hate someone doesnt mean you can blame him for everything. And i think thats part of our problem. We hate certain people or groups so much that it turns to violence.
Last edited by Y M Ionhere on Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.



bmw
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Re: Texas mass shooting

Post by bmw » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:41 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:44 am
All prospective gun buyers and existing gun owners should be subject to periodic mental health screenings.
MWmetalhead wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:08 am
You think mental health screening would have zero effect?
I missed that first quote in your original post, and I'm sorry, but that proposal is a major infringement of one's right to privacy. You think every single one of the 100,000,000 existing gun owners in this country should be subject to periodic mental health screenings? Who is going to pay for these screenings? How are you going to enforce this? How are you going to figure out who currently owns a gun? I'd be curious to hear the specifics of your policy proposal because on the surface this looks more extreme than even what the gun control advocates are pushing for.

Moreover, the right to gun ownership, as the Supreme Court has found, is a Constitutional right. Our founders never intended for people to be subjected to mental health screenings in order to be allowed to exercise their rights under the Constitution, and certainly not on such a massive scale without even establishing any sort of probable cause that someone might be mentally ill. Your proposal would be struck down as unconstitutional, probably in a 9-0 decision.



bmw
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Re: Texas mass shooting

Post by bmw » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:46 am

On a side note, ABC News is a joke. Trump just gave a 10 minute statement, and as soon as it was over, rather than addressing anything he said, pushed all the talking points of the Democrat party. David Muir implicitly blamed Trump over his "rhetoric" on illegal immigration, the next reporter clamored about how Trump made no mention of any gun control measures and accused him of mixed messaging, etc, etc. I felt like I had just watched the State of the Union Address, and then that ABC News was the Democratic response.



bmw
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Re: Texas mass shooting

Post by bmw » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:38 am

https://www.10tv.com/article/classmates ... t-2019-aug
DAYTON, Ohio (AP) — High school classmates of the gunman who killed nine people early Sunday in Dayton, Ohio, say he was suspended for compiling a "hit list" of those he wanted to kill and a "rape list" of girls he wanted to sexually assault.

The accounts by two former classmates emerged after police said there was nothing in the background of 24-year-old Connor Betts that would have prevented him from purchasing the .223-caliber rifle with extended ammunition magazines...

Both former classmates told The Associated Press that Betts was suspended during their junior year at suburban Bellbrook High School after a hit list was found scrawled in a school bathroom. That followed an earlier suspension after Betts came to school with a list of female students he wanted to sexually assault, according to the two classmates, a man and a woman who are both now 24 and spoke on condition of anonymity out of concern they might face harassment.

"There was a kill list and a rape list, and my name was on the rape list," said the female classmate...

Bellbrook-Sugarcreek Schools officials declined to comment on those accounts, only confirming that Betts attended schools in the district.

The discovery of the hit list early in 2012 sparked a police investigation, and roughly one-third of Bellbrook students skipped school out of fear, according to an article in the Dayton Daily News.

It's not clear what became of that investigation. Chief Michael Brown in Sugarcreek Township, which has jurisdiction over the Bellbrook school, did not return calls Sunday about whether his agency investigated the hit list...
If this is accurate, how do we keep people like him from getting a gun? He was suspended from school twice - once for having a rape list and another time for having a hit list, yet nobody did anything about it, and now neither the school nor the police department want to talk about it.



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Turkeytop
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Re: Texas mass shooting

Post by Turkeytop » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:34 pm

Why all the excitement? On any given day in the U.S. there are an average of 100 gun deaths. Statistically, this is just a minor blip. When averaged out over a year, it's less than 0.1 per day.

https://everytownresearch.org/gun-violence-america/


I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.

bmw
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Re: Texas mass shooting

Post by bmw » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:50 pm

TT - I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic, but either way, Neil deGrasse caved to political correctness and apologized for citing some statistics.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertai ... topstories



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Turkeytop
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Re: Texas mass shooting

Post by Turkeytop » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:01 pm

bmw wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:50 pm
TT - I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic, but either way, Neil deGrasse caved to political correctness and apologized for citing some statistics.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertai ... topstories
He apologized for citing the statistics, not for any errors or inaccuracies in the numbers.


I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.

screen glare
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Re: Texas mass shooting

Post by screen glare » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:16 pm

Be sure to watch the latest installment of “BREAKING HATE” on CNN.

Former white terrorist sees idiocy and danger of his ways. Sets out to help extricate others who are still mired in that same extremism, or are currently being recruited.

Eye-opening. You understand this is not some insignificant group of conservatives stockpiling guns and ammunition. It’s an army that believes it’s headed for a race war.

And - they believe Donald Trump condones their words and actions - and speaks their racist jargon. Which he dog whistles to them - especially at his rallies.

Watch and learn.



screen glare
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Re: Texas mass shooting

Post by screen glare » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:24 pm

It gets better, bmw. Wait until you get a load of Trump’s past incitements (on video) edited in between his insincere dispassionate reading of his teleprompted speech - the day after he returns to the white house from his golf weekend - when the El Paso and Dayton mass shootings happened.

His two-faced complicitness is jarring.



screen glare
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Re: Texas mass shooting

Post by screen glare » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:28 pm

I see the race war-monger’s chat site - 8Chan - is no more.

Oh well. They’ll converse and plot elsewhere in cyberspace.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: Texas mass shooting

Post by MWmetalhead » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:32 pm

I missed that first quote in your original post, and I'm sorry, but that proposal is a major infringement of one's right to privacy. You think every single one of the 100,000,000 existing gun owners in this country should be subject to periodic mental health screenings?
I wasn't intending to apply this retroactively, only to future gun sales. But, I've given this additional thought, and perhaps there is a way in which this *could* be applied retroactively. See below.
Who is going to pay for these screenings?
Any number of taxation options could be considered. Gun retailers. Gun manufacturers who sell their product in the USA. Gun applicants. Excise tax levied on the guns themselves. Really doesn't matter to me.
How are you going to enforce this?
At point of purchase. Mental health info would be loaded into the same database used for background checks. If you don't have a clean bill of mental health on file, you cannot purchase a gun.
How are you going to figure out who currently owns a gun?
Three possibilities come to mind for me. I'm open to either.

Option #1 - Don't. Only apply the requirement for future gun purchases.
Option #2 - collect this info at time of driver license renewal, voter registration or census bureau.
Option #3 - make participation voluntary and provide a financial incentive for existing gun owners to voluntarily participate.
I'd be curious to hear the specifics of your policy proposal because on the surface this looks more extreme than even what the gun control advocates are pushing for.
You either are reading much more into my proposal than intended or haven't paid attention to Trump's own comments today, which interestingly enough, aren't too far off the mark from my own recommendations.
Moreover, the right to gun ownership, as the Supreme Court has found, is a Constitutional right. Our founders never intended for people to be subjected to mental health screenings in order to be allowed to exercise their rights under the Constitution, and certainly not on such a massive scale without even establishing any sort of probable cause that someone might be mentally ill. Your proposal would be struck down as unconstitutional, probably in a 9-0 decision.
Using your logic - felons who are currently imprisoned should be able to own guns, too, right?

If mental health screening results disqualified one from gun ownership, there would be an administrative hearing process to appeal the decision.

You do realize folks in the late 18th century had a nearly non-existent understanding of mental health, I presume? Also, last time I checked, a process does exist for amending the Constitution. Admittedly, that road would be a very difficult one to travel.

I will say enhanced Background Checks alone represent only a small piece of a complicated puzzle that needs to be solved. Shutting down web sites that encourage domestic terrorism (Chan8), finding and arresting those who promote such acts, and far greater funding of mental health services in our primary school systems are all actions that need to be taken.



zzand
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Re: Texas mass shooting

Post by zzand » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:57 pm

HIPPA laws may be a roadblock on the mental health screenings. Some sort of work around would be needed. Turkeytop, I notice you have been very silent on the 2 Canadian teen serial killers that have so far been smarter than Canadian law enforcement.



zzand
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Re: Texas mass shooting

Post by zzand » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:09 pm

I kill 88,000 people in the United States every single year.
I kill 4,300 underage children every year.
I am responsible for 190,000 visits to the ER by people under 21.
Over 40% of all children in the 10th grade illegally use me.
I am the cause of 1.4 million acts of violence committed between strangers.
I am present in nearly half of all violent crimes up to and including homicide, rape, assault, and child abuse.
Each day I am used by illegal means 300,000 times but only 3,200 people are arrested.
My negative consequences cost the U.S. economy $250 billion a year.
I am alcohol.


Just going to leave this here.



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