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Can A Statement Be Racist If It's True?

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zzand
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Re: Can A Statement Be Racist If It's True?

Post by zzand » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:40 pm

I first noticed this when Mr. Obama ran the first time. People would ask if you, generic you, were going to vote for him and if you said no you were an automatic racist. Never mind that you didn't agree with his politics or had never voted Democrat in all your years of voting, you were an automatic racist. Then when Mrs. Clinton ran and you, again generic you, were asked if you were going to vote for her if you said no you were sexist or other names along that line. No logic involved, just straight out labeling because of your choice in candidate.



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Turkeytop
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Re: Can A Statement Be Racist If It's True?

Post by Turkeytop » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:38 pm

bmw wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:12 pm
Turkeytop wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:28 pm
Trump may or may not be a racist. But he's campaigning for the racist vote. He doesn't want to leave a single racist vote uncast.
So is your opinion that criticizing people of color equates to campaigning for the "racist vote"?
There's a difference between criticism and insult. Trump uses his most vile and hateful insults on people of colour.

He doesn't tell Bernie Sanders to go back where he came from. He doesn't try to spin some conspiracy theory that Joe Biden was really born in Kenya. He doesn't refer to white countries like Denmark or Switzerland as "s---hole countries."


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Lester The Nightfly
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Re: Can A Statement Be Racist If It's True?

Post by Lester The Nightfly » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:15 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:38 pm
bmw wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:12 pm
Turkeytop wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:28 pm
Trump may or may not be a racist. But he's campaigning for the racist vote. He doesn't want to leave a single racist vote uncast.
So is your opinion that criticizing people of color equates to campaigning for the "racist vote"?
There's a difference between criticism and insult. Trump uses his most vile and hateful insults on people of colour.

He doesn't tell Bernie Sanders to go back where he came from. He doesn't try to spin some conspiracy theory that Joe Biden was really born in Kenya. He doesn't refer to white countries like Denmark or Switzerland as "s---hole countries."
You're right but Trump and many of his vocal supporters (some of which are exhibited on these very pages, personal attacks included) fail willingly or unwillingly to acknowledge that. There's always some rationalization they put forth that absolves clearly abhorrent behavior. It's the point I was making earlier and has still continues well past that post.

Pretty sad really. One wonders what other moral shortcomings they make allowances for?



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Re: Can A Statement Be Racist If It's True?

Post by Y M Ionhere » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:35 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:38 pm
bmw wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:12 pm
Turkeytop wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:28 pm
Trump may or may not be a racist. But he's campaigning for the racist vote. He doesn't want to leave a single racist vote uncast.
So is your opinion that criticizing people of color equates to campaigning for the "racist vote"?
There's a difference between criticism and insult. Trump uses his most vile and hateful insults on people of colour.

He doesn't tell Bernie Sanders to go back where he came from. He doesn't try to spin some conspiracy theory that Joe Biden was really born in Kenya. He doesn't refer to white countries like Denmark or Switzerland as "s---hole countries."
Im willing to concede the first paragraph because i believe a President needs to engage in diplomaxy.
But your second paragraph falls apart and lacks credibility.
First, the Obama/Kenya thing was started by a Clinton staffer who tried to use it in the Democratic primary. There was an allegation that Obamas African grandmother claimed to have witnessed his birth in Kenya. Trumps biggest mistake was pursuing it and investigating something that didnt really affect him. But that was Clintons thing. So why compare it to Bernie Sanders? Nobody doubted he was born here, so where would he go back to? Nobody doubted or -and this is a big difference-CLAIMED-Joe Biden was born elsewhere. No family member made such a statement. This is an apples to oranges comparison.
As is the country comparison. Because you are comparing 1st and 3rd world nations. People in Switzerland arent living off the grid, with no power or plumbing, in mud huts out in 110 degree heat with limited food sources. Swiss roads arent full of waste and sewage. The average life expectancy is much greater than 35 years old. AIDS is not afflicting significant numbers of the population. Political unrest and corruption is worse in most 3rd world countries than in most of the developed world. Resources arent squandered by dictators who steal elections. When Denmark is overrun by sewage and undrinkable water and AIDS epidemics and starvation, then you can draw comparos. Until then, like TC pushing the race card, you are desperately grabbing at straws with little credibility.



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Re: Can A Statement Be Racist If It's True?

Post by bmw » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:37 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:38 pm
There's a difference between criticism and insult. Trump uses his most vile and hateful insults on people of colour.

He doesn't tell Bernie Sanders to go back where he came from. He doesn't try to spin some conspiracy theory that Joe Biden was really born in Kenya. He doesn't refer to white countries like Denmark or Switzerland as "s---hole countries."
Denmark and Switzerland aren't third-world countries.

Nobody ever suggested that Joe Biden wasn't born in the US. Trump was far from alone in having doubts about Obama's place of birth.

As to Bernie Sanders, I think Trump has largely avoided criticizing him for political reasons, NOT as you have implied because he's white. While Bernie is a far-left socialist, he has a lot of lower-middle class working class supporters, some of which Trump thinks he might be able to sway to vote for him.

People will always see racism where they WANT to see racism. And I'm telling you right now that this boy-who-cried-wolf syndrome whereby the left can't help but cry racism repeatedly will backfire in 2020.



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Re: Can A Statement Be Racist If It's True?

Post by Y M Ionhere » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:27 pm

one other thing: you referred to Switzerland and Denmark as "white countries". Statistically this could be true. But dont most self-identified "Democratoc socialists" cite those countries as the places we must emulate the most.
Hmmm. The far left wing "socialists" that accuse Trump and his supporters of racism want us to be more like admittedly "white", homogenous countries with Less diversity than us.
Ironic.



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Turkeytop
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Re: Can A Statement Be Racist If It's True?

Post by Turkeytop » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:00 am

Y M Ionhere wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:27 pm
one other thing: you referred to Switzerland and Denmark as "white countries". Statistically this could be true. But dont most self-identified "Democratoc socialists" cite those countries as the places we must emulate the most.
Hmmm. The far left wing "socialists" that accuse Trump and his supporters of racism want us to be more like admittedly "white", homogenous countries with Less diversity than us.
Ironic.
You're losing me. I can't quite follow such a convoluted trail of logic.


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Re: Can A Statement Be Racist If It's True?

Post by Y M Ionhere » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:14 am

Turkeytop wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:00 am
Y M Ionhere wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:27 pm
one other thing: you referred to Switzerland and Denmark as "white countries". Statistically this could be true. But dont most self-identified "Democratoc socialists" cite those countries as the places we must emulate the most.
Hmmm. The far left wing "socialists" that accuse Trump and his supporters of racism want us to be more like admittedly "white", homogenous countries with Less diversity than us.
Ironic.
You're losing me. I can't quite follow such a convoluted trail of logic.
I find it ironic that the same people who accuse Trump of being for white supremacy and keeping the country white also admit that the countries they admire and wish we were more like are "white countries". If diversity really mattered to socialists they would condemn places like Switzerland for being, as you yourself put it, "white countries".



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Turkeytop
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Re: Can A Statement Be Racist If It's True?

Post by Turkeytop » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:42 am

Y M Ionhere wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:14 am
Turkeytop wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:00 am
Y M Ionhere wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:27 pm
one other thing: you referred to Switzerland and Denmark as "white countries". Statistically this could be true. But dont most self-identified "Democratoc socialists" cite those countries as the places we must emulate the most.
Hmmm. The far left wing "socialists" that accuse Trump and his supporters of racism want us to be more like admittedly "white", homogenous countries with Less diversity than us.
Ironic.
You're losing me. I can't quite follow such a convoluted trail of logic.
I find it ironic that the same people who accuse Trump of being for white supremacy and keeping the country white also admit that the countries they admire and wish we were more like are "white countries". If diversity really mattered to socialists they would condemn places like Switzerland for being, as you yourself put it, "white countries".
You can't condemn a country for being white any more than you can condemn a country for being black. It isn't a county's whiteness that we admire. It's their progressive political and social policies that make them admirable.

We condemned South Africa when it was a black country ruled by white supremacists. We condemned Hitler's white Germany.

Right now today, all over Europe, white nationalists are whipping up fear and hatred of immigrants, using the same playbook as is Trump


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Re: Can A Statement Be Racist If It's True?

Post by Y M Ionhere » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:58 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:42 am
Y M Ionhere wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:14 am
Turkeytop wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:00 am
Y M Ionhere wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:27 pm
one other thing: you referred to Switzerland and Denmark as "white countries". Statistically this could be true. But dont most self-identified "Democratoc socialists" cite those countries as the places we must emulate the most.
Hmmm. The far left wing "socialists" that accuse Trump and his supporters of racism want us to be more like admittedly "white", homogenous countries with Less diversity than us.
Ironic.
You're losing me. I can't quite follow such a convoluted trail of logic.
I find it ironic that the same people who accuse Trump of being for white supremacy and keeping the country white also admit that the countries they admire and wish we were more like are "white countries". If diversity really mattered to socialists they would condemn places like Switzerland for being, as you yourself put it, "white countries".
You can't condemn a country for being white any more than you can condemn a country for being black. It isn't a county's whiteness that we admire. It's their progressive political and social policies that make them admirable.

We condemned South Africa when it was a black country ruled by white supremacists. We condemned Hitler's white Germany.

Right now today, all over Europe, white nationalists are whipping up fear and hatred of immigrants, using the same playbook as is Trump
Turkeytop wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:42 am
Y M Ionhere wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:14 am
Turkeytop wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:00 am
Y M Ionhere wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:27 pm
one other thing: you referred to Switzerland and Denmark as "white countries". Statistically this could be true. But dont most self-identified "Democratoc socialists" cite those countries as the places we must emulate the most.
Hmmm. The far left wing "socialists" that accuse Trump and his supporters of racism want us to be more like admittedly "white", homogenous countries with Less diversity than us.
Ironic.
You're losing me. I can't quite follow such a convoluted trail of logic.
I find it ironic that the same people who accuse Trump of being for white supremacy and keeping the country white also admit that the countries they admire and wish we were more like are "white countries". If diversity really mattered to socialists they would condemn places like Switzerland for being, as you yourself put it, "white countries".
You can't condemn a country for being white any more than you can condemn a country for being black. It isn't a county's whiteness that we admire. It's their progressive political and social policies that make them admirable.

We condemned South Africa when it was a black country ruled by white supremacists. We condemned Hitler's white Germany.

Right now today, all over Europe, white nationalists are whipping up fear and hatred of immigrants, using the same playbook as is Trump

Guy plows over 40+ civilians with a box truck. Refugees burn tent villages. Riots in French streets. The backlash against immigration is not hatred but the harsh realities of safety threats brought on by left wing immigration policies and utter denial of reality by socialists who dont want to accept that not every immigrant has good intentions.



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Bryce
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Re: Can A Statement Be Racist If It's True?

Post by Bryce » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:58 pm

Plus, YM, If you want to come to the U.S. it should be because you want to be a AMERICAN. Embrace our culture, language and ethics. Not to get goodies and immediately try to change things.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

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Re: Can A Statement Be Racist If It's True?

Post by bmw » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:45 pm

Bryce wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:58 pm
Plus, YM, If you want to come to the U.S. it should be because you want to be a AMERICAN. Embrace our culture, language and ethics. Not to get goodies and immediately try to change things.
Those people will never embrace our American culture for one simple reason - that our country was founded by a bunch of racist white dudes.



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TC Talks
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Re: Can A Statement Be Racist If It's True?

Post by TC Talks » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:35 pm

Y M Ionhere wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:09 am
Lester The Nightfly wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:26 pm
Seems to me there's an awful lot of ethical and cognitive gymnastics being played here as to why statements or sentiments are not racist. I'll only chime in that if you would feel the need you would have to to go through similar gyrations with people such as your employer, pastor or look your your kids in the eyes to justify why something that is clearly racist isn't, it's a pretty good bet it won't pass the smell test in this particular forum either.

History is rife with empty souls who slept well at night secure in their own delusional justifications.
Nope. Its because hateful leftists like you throw the allegation around to besmearch others for political gain. Its libel and im fed up and had enough of it. Time to defend myself against scum who try to ruin reputations to keep their side in power.
You sure whine a lot for a racist.

Go look up libel sometime, that gave me a good laugh. It's that kind of logic that allowed you basket of deplorables to elect Trump.
Last edited by TC Talks on Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Can A Statement Be Racist If It's True?

Post by TC Talks » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:37 pm

bmw wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:45 pm
Bryce wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:58 pm
Plus, YM, If you want to come to the U.S. it should be because you want to be a AMERICAN. Embrace our culture, language and ethics. Not to get goodies and immediately try to change things.
Those people will never embrace our American culture for one simple reason - that our country was founded by a bunch of racist white dudes.
Our true blue American values includes monster trucks, incest and Mountain Dew?

We have embraced every culture in the world... Let's start this discussion out with food... Tamales anyone?


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

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Re: Can A Statement Be Racist If It's True?

Post by Y M Ionhere » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:58 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:35 pm
Y M Ionhere wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:09 am
Lester The Nightfly wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:26 pm
Seems to me there's an awful lot of ethical and cognitive gymnastics being played here as to why statements or sentiments are not racist. I'll only chime in that if you would feel the need you would have to to go through similar gyrations with people such as your employer, pastor or look your your kids in the eyes to justify why something that is clearly racist isn't, it's a pretty good bet it won't pass the smell test in this particular forum either.

History is rife with empty souls who slept well at night secure in their own delusional justifications.
Nope. Its because hateful leftists like you throw the allegation around to besmearch others for political gain. Its libel and im fed up and had enough of it. Time to defend myself against scum who try to ruin reputations to keep their side in power.
You sure whine a lot for a racist.

Go look up libel sometime, that gave me a good laugh. It's that kind of logic that allowed you basket of deplorables to elect Trump.
Calling a man you dont even know a damaging term like "racist"?

This goes beyond political disagreements. This is a malicious attempt to impugn the character of someone you dont even know.



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