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FCC General Radiotelephone Operator's License??

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Plate Cap
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FCC General Radiotelephone Operator's License??

Post by Plate Cap » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:16 am

By a show of hands (er, responses), who here holds a GROL?

Did you get the license new after it converted from a First/Second class license, or did you have it before then?

Has an employer, since the removal of it being a necessity for commercial broadcast work, still required that you have it?


The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

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audiophile
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Re: FCC General Radiotelephone Operator's License??

Post by audiophile » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:29 am

Old news. The boss just requires a Ham License of any class.


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Plate Cap
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Re: FCC General Radiotelephone Operator's License??

Post by Plate Cap » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:23 am

News?

Certainly not a news item......I'm afraid I don't understand your remark. What jobs (perhaps other than at Ham Radio Outlet) require a ham license?

I posed the question as a matter of curiosity as I keep coming across clients that require it of applicants for jobs that do not require the license.


The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

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audiophile
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Re: FCC General Radiotelephone Operator's License??

Post by audiophile » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:58 am

Having a ham license is based on some the same criteria that the first/general did, but the ham license is easier to acquire nowadays. For broadcast this is adequate.


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

In The Bleachers
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Re: FCC General Radiotelephone Operator's License??

Post by In The Bleachers » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:07 pm

I believe you still need a GROL to repair and maintain the following:

All ship radio and radar stations.
All coast stations.
All hand-carried units used to communicate with ships and coast stations on marine frequencies.
All aircraft stations and aeronautical ground stations (including hand-carried portable units) used to communicate with aircraft.
International fixed public radiotelephone and radiotelegraph stations.

I passed the GROL in, I'm guessing 1992. I don't think there was a first class anymore. Channel 4 weatherman Mal Sillars also was there taking an FCC test. But it wasn't the GROL, think it may of been something a boat owner had to have.

Employers like seeing the GROL because it shows ya got a little gray matter between the ears. I also got a CET with radar and communications endorsement. I hear a desirable thing in the two way radio business is to have a NABER endorsement. Can't tell ya what all that entails.


Nothing will change until ALL incumbents are voted out of office.

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Plate Cap
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Re: FCC General Radiotelephone Operator's License??

Post by Plate Cap » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:23 am

Sigh.........

Thanks, In The Bleachers.....I understand why the license exists, and where it is required and not required, as I have such a license. You were helpful in determining who has it (there are at least 2 of us here).

I was attempting, as it appears rather unsuccessfully, to inquire among our august group here, how many people actually hold the license, and secondarily, if it had been required of anyone during application for a conventional broadcast engineering job, despite it no longer being required for broadcast work. I know some employers do still require it....usually it is an older hiring manager who may have the license himself from the mid to late 80s when it was required, and who considers it an effective gatekeeping measure to keep the applicant pool "qualified".

Obviously, this is rubbish in current Part 73 work.....I'm trying to get a sense of how deep it might still be. I inquired here because a client group still requires it, and we entered into a discussion about the merits of doing so.

I appreciate FedUp's response, although I'm a little shocked that an employer would actually require an amateur license as a credential. I hold no malice for amateur radio, as I am licensed there as well, but this comes as a surprise. Is this option for job qualification a theory on your part, Fed, or was it actually required for a job application, and if so, in which field?


The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

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Plate Cap
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Re: FCC General Radiotelephone Operator's License??

Post by Plate Cap » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:16 am

In The Bleachers wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:07 pm
I hear a desirable thing in the two way radio business is to have a NABER endorsement. Can't tell ya what all that entails.
Hi,

NABER went away in 1994 to form PCIA with several other entities, and PCIA went away to become WIA (Wireless Industry Alliance). They state they do frequency coordination work on their web site, but I've not heard of them until today.

NABER existed primarily as a "non profit" operation that 'coordinated' business radio licenses. The Commission divested itself of the burden of coordinating (i.e. picking a good frequency) applicants in the Part 90 services back in the early 80s. This gave rise to "non profit" entities like NABER and SIRSA doing it on a "non profit" basis. An option existed to have a technical group research the spectrum for licenses in the location of interest, and prepare a document stating the process and recommending a frequency based upon that research. The coordinators realized this was a threat to their golden egg laying machine, and rather quickly convinced their cronies and former office-mates at FCC (the principles were former FCC people seeing 'better opportunities' on the outside) to close off that avenue.

NABER did have a technician certification program....so did NARTE and several other entities. It grew out of the dissolution of the FCC First and Second Class licenses, which are related to the GROL. However, since licensing was so narrowly required (see the above list), and not at all in broadcast and private radio, it never really generated much interest. The flood gates were open. If a state no longer required drivers licenses, but you could get one if you really wanted one, there would not be many people in that line.

In a way, the SBE certifications, though much more relevent, are the same way. Broadcasters pay so little for engineering talent that they really can't close off the applicant pool too much by requiring much in the way of 'certification'. An applicant with an alphabet soup of SBE certifications after his name has certainly done a lot of testing, but it does not say much about his work attitude, ability to solve problems, willingness to show up at a TX site at 3 AM in 4' of snow, etc. That, coupled with the fact that one engineer can now serve 8 or 10 stations at the same level of pay one who serviced one station in 1980 got does not make for a terribly competitive environment.

This all circles, in a way, around my original question about the GROL and the 'requirement' for a document in an applicant's hand that really is not required. :lol:


The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

k8jd
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Re: FCC General Radiotelephone Operator's License??

Post by k8jd » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:27 pm

I am not sure the FCC radiotelephone licenses are worth the paper they are printed on any more.
What I have seen is a shift to Industry Standard certifications that are now a requirement for many radio communication servicing and Broadcast technical jobs.
I (and the other tech team members) had to take an Industry Standard exam and later, the Motorola Technical exams, to keep the shop we worked in, for 20 years, top rated in the business. The FCC first class phone was no longer the standard we had to live up to.



In The Bleachers
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Re: FCC General Radiotelephone Operator's License??

Post by In The Bleachers » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:02 pm

k8jd wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:27 pm
I am not sure the FCC radiotelephone licenses are worth the paper they are printed on any more.
What I have seen is a shift to Industry Standard certifications that are now a requirement for many radio communication servicing and Broadcast technical jobs.
I (and the other tech team members) had to take an Industry Standard exam and later, the Motorola Technical exams, to keep the shop we worked in, for 20 years, top rated in the business. The FCC first class phone was no longer the standard we had to live up to.
Care to offer a link to info about the Industry Standard Exam? I did a few minutes of googling and don't see anything related to electronics. Thanks.


Nothing will change until ALL incumbents are voted out of office.

k8jd
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Re: FCC General Radiotelephone Operator's License??

Post by k8jd » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:55 pm

Bleachers, Sorry I don't have the links to anything. I just remember sitting for those exams here and in Shaumberg, IL
I retired almost 6 years ago and that is all just a memory now.
I took the Amateur radio exams when I was 16, 17 and 35 years old to get to the top and did the first class fone when I was 18 to get a job in Radio broadcasting and then later in life the FCC Commercial license was not enough to get by in two way radio service jobs.
I carried the FCC verification card and a few additional plastic certification proof cards in my wallet for many years.

By the Way, "Nankin Township" ? I thought I was the one living in the past until I saw that :D



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rst599
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Re: FCC General Radiotelephone Operator's License??

Post by rst599 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:11 pm

"First Ticket" holder here, since the early 70s, converted to GROL when they rearranged things. Also hold SBE CPBE, first certified shortly after the cert program was started in the late 70s. SBE exams are the industry standard for broadcast and audio/video. www.sbe.org and click on Certification.



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Ed Joseph
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Re: FCC General Radiotelephone Operator's License??

Post by Ed Joseph » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:10 am

I had a 3rd Class ticket. I was literally days away from going to upgrade to 2nd Class when it was obsoleted and I was given the Restricted Class Op Permit. I physically lost both of them somehow in a move over 30 years ago. I worked as both an assistant and a Chief engineer with nothing more during the mid part of the 90's. I was never as much as asked to present one or to pin one up by the transmitter! All I ever did was sign a typed memo on a station letterhead basically saying I was "chief operator" of the station(s), owned by Bla-blah Media, Inc, and was responsible for proper maintenance, repair, logging and legal operation of said station(s) as required under FCC Part 47 yada yada yada.... Of course, I was hired there more because of who and what I knew as opposed to what papers I carried around.

I had a bad knack for hiring into stations which were soon secretly sold from under me throughout the 90's. You know, the whole Late Friday mandatory staff meeting where you were all informed that "Bla-Blah Media has sold the station to Gigantic Bunch of Idiots, LLC, and you're all no longer in the employ of either company, have a nice life". It must must have happened to me at least five times in a row. In August of '98, I left broadcasting for good after almost 30 years and went to work on the line at Jeep for the next ten years. I wasn't the only radio engineer who already felt the negative effects of TCA96 as soon as 1998.

I actually miss radio a lot, it's in my blood, but I don't miss all the garbage and horseshit that consolidation has set loose in the industry. Maybe if some more stations end up being local O&O's, I'll go back. For now, I'm retired, as flat as it makes my wallet.


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k8jd
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Re: FCC General Radiotelephone Operator's License??

Post by k8jd » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:59 pm

I got my 1st class fone ticket when I was working at WOPA am/fm near Chicago. At age 18 !
Used it as a mobile radio technician for years, then the FCC sent me a GROL ticket to replace the defucnt 1st & 2nd class tickets. .
Then about ten years ago Motorola decided they needed their own certification and we had to take new tests given by the CET people.
Glad I retired when I did :D



k8jd
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Re: FCC General Radiotelephone Operator's License??

Post by k8jd » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:07 pm

Coming soon from Accunulated Gigantic Broadcasting inc,.; robot fault monitors watching all the transmitters in the network at our headquarters in Atlanta.



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