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March 2017 Tropos

The technical side of broadcasting. Think IBOC is a sham? Talk about it here! How about HDTV? Post DX reports here as well.
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mtburb
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March 2017 Tropos

Post by mtburb » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:41 pm

We're getting closer to the perfect time of the year for DXers-tonight I am receiving an analog station on RF22, have no idea where it's from as there's too much snow for any clear pictures to come in.

The tropo map says southeast Michigan is not in for any tropo until Tuesday, so this is highly unusual.
For three days in January 2017 (15th, 16th, 19th), I managed to receive KDKA Pittsburgh from 202 miles away indoors!

My tropo station reception reports: https://www.rabbitears.info/dxlocation.php?id=403

cckadlec
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Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by cckadlec » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:30 pm

The tropo maps are not intended to be perfect and are only an overview. Back when I was studying lake tropo in 2008, Bill changed the formulas to be more sensitive to indicate low-level tropo over Lake Michigan, which really helped me out in predicting which days would be ideal for the beach. He'd get most of them right after the change, because before that, there would be monster lake tropo but no warning of it, so I asked him if there was a way to pick up on that. But this time of year, tropo isn't that special (til April anyway) so the maps won't be as accurate aside from the bigger openings. Even then, sometimes they can predict something and it'd be a total bust because the tropo is at a different elevation which is either going over you or under you (probably over). I rarely check the maps these days as aside from the big tropo events, we're caught in the cereal bowl effect of sorts here. Always the exact same area comes in during radiation inversions and enhancement and even moderate tropo... every time. The stronger it is, the stronger the (same) stations come in, but little outside that same area. The first to come in beyond that is Cedar Rapids, then Columbus, Cleveland, and Dayton. Never much else.

Your channel 22 could be either Pinconning (250w) or Dayton (54kw), likely the latter.
Attachments
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Formula edited to show low-level tropo
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[ Radio and weather geeks, beware! Coastal tropo studies and the Seoul AM Radio Listening Guide documentary at http://www.beaglebass.com/dxTuner: Grundig G8 • Location: Fremont, Mich. / 101 mi. ene of Milwaukee ]

ftballfan
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Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by ftballfan » Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:38 am

Isn't there an RF22 in SW Ontario?

cckadlec
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Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by cckadlec » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:11 pm

ftballfan wrote:
Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:38 am
Isn't there an RF22 in SW Ontario?
Indeed, and I was thinking the same too when I saw that. But Global's CIII-TV appears to have gone off the air on analog and is digital-only now. At least all information I have says that.
[ Radio and weather geeks, beware! Coastal tropo studies and the Seoul AM Radio Listening Guide documentary at http://www.beaglebass.com/dxTuner: Grundig G8 • Location: Fremont, Mich. / 101 mi. ene of Milwaukee ]

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Splouge
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Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by Splouge » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:24 pm

Are you still receiving analog 22, do you have any pictures?

It could be WKNX-LP Bay City, operating at 250 W ERP. P&P's stations don't broadcast regularly, and I have emailed them before. Tell me the date and time (in EST, obviously) and I'll ask if WKNX was on the air at that time
One time, I got WYZZ Peoria 330 miles away indoors clearly for 10 minutes on Dec 5, 2015

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mtburb
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Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by mtburb » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:43 pm

Splouge wrote:
Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:24 pm
Are you still receiving analog 22, do you have any pictures?

It could be WKNX-LP Bay City, operating at 250 W ERP. P&P's stations don't broadcast regularly, and I have emailed them before. Tell me the date and time (in EST, obviously) and I'll ask if WKNX was on the air at that time
It was still coming in this evening, it wasn't coming in when I checked during the daylight hours.

I managed to get a picture this time when the channel display box was popping up with the "Mono" text and accompanied by the typical analog snow sounds. I'm posting this on the WTFDA forums too to see if the folks there have a clue on what this mysterious station is. It was coming in with the antenna pointed south and west and a bit east.
Image
For three days in January 2017 (15th, 16th, 19th), I managed to receive KDKA Pittsburgh from 202 miles away indoors!

My tropo station reception reports: https://www.rabbitears.info/dxlocation.php?id=403

cckadlec
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Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by cckadlec » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:48 pm

Then of the two, you'd be aiming perpendicular to Bay City and would be more likely to be seeing (or maybe hearing anyway) Dayton, which is significantly more powerful. Dayton happens to be to the SSW (which I suppose would be to the south and west and a bit east depending on your wording there).
[ Radio and weather geeks, beware! Coastal tropo studies and the Seoul AM Radio Listening Guide documentary at http://www.beaglebass.com/dxTuner: Grundig G8 • Location: Fremont, Mich. / 101 mi. ene of Milwaukee ]

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Splouge
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Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by Splouge » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:53 pm

WKNX was off the air on that day
One time, I got WYZZ Peoria 330 miles away indoors clearly for 10 minutes on Dec 5, 2015

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Splouge
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Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by Splouge » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:50 am

Of course, it could always be a pirate. It looks like it's airing something originally made in 16:9 but is being broadcast in 4:3, since it looks like it has those black bars on the top and bottom of the video. I've seen static like that on my TV. But it's usually nothing. But you're getting sound, so it definitely is something broadcasting. It probably is W22DE in Dayton, since the station is at 54 kW (that's not a typo, it really is kilowatts) since the maximum ERP for UHF LPTV analogs is 150 kW. It is a translator of WSTR, which is 16:9, so that would explain why it's got the black bars. Of course, it could always be a pirate
One time, I got WYZZ Peoria 330 miles away indoors clearly for 10 minutes on Dec 5, 2015

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mtburb
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Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by mtburb » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:33 pm

I still have no clue what this channel 22 really is as the picture was too snowy. I am going to rule out Findlay and Chicago, though, since the channel 22s in those cities have converted to digital.

Also, though it has gotten colder over the past week, I managed to get a split-second picture signal of Jerry Anderson on WTOL just a couple minutes ago. WTOL usually never comes in when temperatures fall this low.
For three days in January 2017 (15th, 16th, 19th), I managed to receive KDKA Pittsburgh from 202 miles away indoors!

My tropo station reception reports: https://www.rabbitears.info/dxlocation.php?id=403

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Splouge
Posts: 519
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:34 pm
Location: 9 miles from the laziest ever TV station, W33BY, or as they call themselves, WHPR TV

Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by Splouge » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:45 pm

mtburb wrote:
Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:33 pm
I still have no clue what this channel 22 really is as the picture was too snowy. I am going to rule out Findlay and Chicago, though, since the channel 22s in those cities have converted to digital.

Also, though it has gotten colder over the past week, I managed to get a split-second picture signal of Jerry Anderson on WTOL just a couple minutes ago. WTOL usually never comes in when temperatures fall this low.
Like I said, it's probably Dayton, the analog 22 there is a whopping 54 kilowatts
One time, I got WYZZ Peoria 330 miles away indoors clearly for 10 minutes on Dec 5, 2015

cckadlec
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Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by cckadlec » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:02 pm

Yup, like both me and him said, Dayton would be your only possibility aside from some long-haul tropo. You were aiming right at it and it's not an especially uncommon area to receive. There's no other channels in the area that would be feasible under such conditions, especially when the only other possibility was off the air.
[ Radio and weather geeks, beware! Coastal tropo studies and the Seoul AM Radio Listening Guide documentary at http://www.beaglebass.com/dxTuner: Grundig G8 • Location: Fremont, Mich. / 101 mi. ene of Milwaukee ]

frankfrank
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Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by frankfrank » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:47 pm

Splouge wrote:
Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:24 pm
Are you still receiving analog 22, do you have any pictures?

It could be WKNX-LP Bay City, operating at 250 W ERP. P&P's stations don't broadcast regularly, and I have emailed them before. Tell me the date and time (in EST, obviously) and I'll ask if WKNX was on the air at that time
I don't think that's possible, because I'm sure it's not on the air anymore. Channel 22 RF now has WNEM-DT from Bay City, which would be mutually exclusive to a Bay City analog LP on the same channel. WNEM-DT is full power and, in fact, I've picked it up here in far western Illinois two or three times.

For that matter, Pinconning was mentioned in a different post (referring to the "Bay City" analog station, perhaps?), and I don't think it's possible that is on the air anymore either, because it's still way too close to full power WNEM-DT.
"Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking." -The Scarecrow, THE WIZARD OF OZ, 1939

Build, for a man, a fire - and he'll be warm for a few hours. Set a man afire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life - UNKNOWN

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mtburb
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Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by mtburb » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:52 pm

Analog 22 is still coming in tonight, accompanied this time by stable signals from both WTOL and WTVG along with a signal hint from the all-too-common WEWS and semi-local WCMZ.
Last edited by mtburb on Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For three days in January 2017 (15th, 16th, 19th), I managed to receive KDKA Pittsburgh from 202 miles away indoors!

My tropo station reception reports: https://www.rabbitears.info/dxlocation.php?id=403

frankfrank
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Location: far western Illinois, soon-to-be Chicago

Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by frankfrank » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:54 pm

mtburb wrote:
Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:33 pm
I managed to get a split-second picture signal of Jerry Anderson on WTOL just a couple minutes ago. WTOL usually never comes in when temperatures fall this low.
Jerry Anderson still works in Toledo? Wow. I remember seeing him there in the early 1980s and the late 1970s. (I actually kinda' had a crush on him, haha...) I'm almost sure he was on Channel 13 back in those days, though.
"Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking." -The Scarecrow, THE WIZARD OF OZ, 1939

Build, for a man, a fire - and he'll be warm for a few hours. Set a man afire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life - UNKNOWN

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Splouge
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Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by Splouge » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:59 am

mtburb wrote:
Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:52 pm
Analog 22 is still coming in tonight, accompanied this time by stable signals from both WTOL and WTVG along with a signal hint from the all-too-common WEWS and semi-local WCMZ.
Any more pictures of analog 22?
One time, I got WYZZ Peoria 330 miles away indoors clearly for 10 minutes on Dec 5, 2015

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mtburb
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Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by mtburb » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:18 am

Splouge wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:59 am
mtburb wrote:
Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:52 pm
Analog 22 is still coming in tonight, accompanied this time by stable signals from both WTOL and WTVG along with a signal hint from the all-too-common WEWS and semi-local WCMZ.
Any more pictures of analog 22?
Nope.
For three days in January 2017 (15th, 16th, 19th), I managed to receive KDKA Pittsburgh from 202 miles away indoors!

My tropo station reception reports: https://www.rabbitears.info/dxlocation.php?id=403

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mtburb
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Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by mtburb » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:06 am

Looks like WTVG increased their power, as I've been now receiving at least a few seconds of their picture signal every day this month.
For three days in January 2017 (15th, 16th, 19th), I managed to receive KDKA Pittsburgh from 202 miles away indoors!

My tropo station reception reports: https://www.rabbitears.info/dxlocation.php?id=403

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mtburb
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Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by mtburb » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:21 pm

Even despite all the snow and then rain that came through today, I surprisingly happened to get a split-second picture on WEWS just a few minutes ago. The map is currently saying there may be some small tropo action in the Detroit area on Monday, so I'll have to check then.
For three days in January 2017 (15th, 16th, 19th), I managed to receive KDKA Pittsburgh from 202 miles away indoors!

My tropo station reception reports: https://www.rabbitears.info/dxlocation.php?id=403

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WOHO
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Re: March 2017 Tropos

Post by WOHO » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:04 am

frankfrank - yes Jerry Anderson (looked the 'Anchorman') was fired from WTVG, hit skid row, worked at a Christian radio station, and then came over to WTOL to save the day when Bill Horman turned-out not to be the answer to the departure of Jeff Heitz there. WNWO news department is no more and the hottie chick from WTVG moved to WNWO and on to WTOL's new co-anchor after some lip injections.

Hey, ccadlec- where do you get those dandy Tropo Maps?

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