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Radio Interference

A place to discuss XM, Sirius, and internet radio.
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Turkeytop
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Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:27 pm

Radio Interference

Post by Turkeytop » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:11 pm

We get our TV via satellite. Lately, there have been a lot of issues with our receivers. Talked to the tech support guy last week. He said our receivers are obsolete (about 12 years old.) He said that with upgrades they are making to their system, our two receivers soon won't work at all. He offered a deal, buy one receiver for $99 and get the second one free.

They arrived yesterday and I installed them. They work great. But they radiate so much noise it wipes out AM radio reception everywhere in the house. Except for the local stations all you can hear all over the dial is just hash.

My desk top radio with the outdoor antenna is OK, but forget about using any kind of a portable radio in the house.

Why are they allowed to manufacture and sell such garbage?

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audiophile
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Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:21 pm
Location: Between 88 and 108 MHz.

Re: Radio Interference

Post by audiophile » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:23 pm

Nobody is checking them...they saved 33 cents on a choke and capacitor.
Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

In The Bleachers
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:15 am
Location: Nankin Township

Re: Radio Interference

Post by In The Bleachers » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:10 pm

audiophile wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:23 pm
Nobody is checking them...they saved 33 cents on a choke and capacitor.
Yup.
Maybe need some ferrites on the feed line. Don't know much about satellite boob tube. Would a low pass on the 120 work? I dunno.
I wonder if using the portable Turkey talks about can be used to "sniff" whether the coax, receiver, or maybe the dish itself is generating.
Maybe tying the outside of the coax, or the chassis of the receiver to a good ground may help.

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SolarMax
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Location: 313

Re: Radio Interference

Post by SolarMax » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:36 am

Does the EMI come from the receivers themselves or their power supplies? Makes a difference in how to minimize or eliminate it.

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Turkeytop
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Re: Radio Interference

Post by Turkeytop » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:19 pm

These new receivers don't have an internal power supply. Just a wall wart. Those are always suspect.

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SolarMax
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Location: 313

Re: Radio Interference

Post by SolarMax » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:40 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:19 pm
These new receivers don't have an internal power supply. Just a wall wart. Those are always suspect.
WALL WART = instant red flag! They're almost always cheap, noisy switching-type supplies. Try to find a transformer supply of the right voltage/current rating. You might have to find the right DC power plugs, or snip and splice on the ones from the OEM PSUs.

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Turkeytop
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Re: Radio Interference

Post by Turkeytop » Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:25 pm

Oops. I was too hasty to blame the receivers. The noise is gone today. So, its source will remain a mystery. I just hope it doesn't come back.

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Plate Cap
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Location: After the rectifier stack

Re: Radio Interference

Post by Plate Cap » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:18 am

Must be the Canadian version of the Kokomo Hum.

I tried to overlook this.....I really, really, did....but, sigh, I couldn't:
Turkeytop wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:11 pm

Why are they allowed to manufacture and sell such garbage?
It's because, in a normal world, there is not a Ministry of Overseeing Everything that protects us from every known potential problem. Major radiators past a certain mV/m level are and always have been regulated, but not everything.

If it's not made well, a normal buyer is supposed to be able to figure that out and send it back without government intervention and the cost thereof.

However, our normal world is indeed almost gone, and there will, with the advent of people being unwilling or unable to think and act for themselves, eventually be oversight of everything (you won't like it), but its not here quite yet.
The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

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Turkeytop
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Re: Radio Interference

Post by Turkeytop » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:02 pm

Got a brand new Buick once. From the day I got it the ignition system radiated so much noise I couldn't listen to A.M. radio. My wife could always tell when I was coming down our street because it would cause interference on her TV.

I took the car back to the Dealer. They had one of their technicians remove the radio and check it out. He declared there was nothing wrong with the radio. Of course, there was nothing wrong with the radio. It was doing exactly what a radio is supposed to do. The problem was with the car. I knew someone who had the very same model of Buick. He let me check his and it was OK

There was a sticker inside the door saying the vehicle met some FCC standard. I sent a letter to GM and asked them to show me where that car had been tested and shown to meet the standard. They never replied

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ZenithCKLW
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Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:21 am
Location: Livonia, MI

Re: Radio Interference

Post by ZenithCKLW » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:13 pm

I have numerous RFI issues in my house. I am becoming quite an expert when trying to troubleshoot this. I've narrowed a lot of noise down to a timer switch in my garage, which I have since removed, and a duplex switch in my basement, which I have yet to remove. Until I remove it, I can only listen to AM radio while the switch for every LED light in the basement is turned on. (The problem isn't LED lights or wiring, because it only happens when they are on.) I'm assuming it's a bad switch or backwards wiring.

I bought a used Fusion last year. About 2 weeks after I bought the car, there was a "paddling" sound on the AM radio. Weaker stations were worse. I didn't have the "typical" AM radio noise. I took it to the dealer several times, each time them just telling me "that's just how AM radio is." No, it's not. Something is wrong. I listened and tracked patterns. I determined this only happened on dry concrete roads or bridges, or when the car would bounce. Turns out my brand new tires I had installed were to blame. I found an article online from 1942 that mentioned something called "tire static". The dry rubber on concrete was creating a charge that was interfering with the radio. After months of this madness, I rotated my tires, and the problem went away.

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Plate Cap
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Location: After the rectifier stack

Re: Radio Interference

Post by Plate Cap » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:27 am

Turkeytop wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:02 pm

There was a sticker inside the door saying the vehicle met some FCC standard. I sent a letter to GM and asked them to show me where that car had been tested and shown to meet the standard. They never replied
You seem like a nice, gentle, intelligent, friendly man, and I have from time to time picked on you. I don't mean to offend, I really don't, and I generally apologize, but the common point in many of your messages is that there should be "someone" (implication is the government) to fix or prohibit such things. We are portrayed as just mindless functionaries that should turn over 60% of our wages until we retire and expect everything to be handled for us as a result.

That "someone" in government is most always under-qualified, quagmired in bureaucracy, and expensive.

Although it is certain not a liberal position, WE MUST return to thinking for ourselves in most things. There was not a "Ministry of Westward Expansion" to do everything including driving the Conestoga wagons for both the US and Canadian expansions. People did it themselves, a lot of them died, but it worked out.

In the case of your car, you inquire among your friends and local experts (we are they), and we tell you things like get some ignition suppression plugs, wires, and put in a new capacitor across the ignition points (I'm assuming this was an old car; if not disregard this step), and your problem will go away. Any ham dating back to the 1920s would tell you that. There simply is not 'someone' at government to fix it for you, and a letter to GM would get lost.

I'm not a Bible-banger, but it's often said..God helps those that help themselves. Not a popular thought with liberals, and increasing less so every day, but still true.
Last edited by Plate Cap on Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

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Plate Cap
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Location: After the rectifier stack

Re: Radio Interference

Post by Plate Cap » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:36 am

ZenithCKLW wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:13 pm
Turns out my brand new tires I had installed were to blame. I found an article online from 1942 that mentioned something called "tire static". The dry rubber on concrete was creating a charge that was interfering with the radio. After months of this madness, I rotated my tires, and the problem went away.
They used to sell ground straps that would drag on the pavement to help alleviate this....it was a heavy rubber strap about an inch in width....you bolted it to the frame and it just 'brushed' the ground as you drove.....I remember some brands had lightning bolts on them.

They were useful for static buildup, interfering with radio, and also causing attraction and buildup of dust. I surmise not so useful if a hot power line landed on your car, though.

Have not seen them for years. I'm REALLY surprised a tire rotation did the job....after all, the alleged offending tire was still there.....I would lean more to the removal and 'regrounding' of the tire's wheel to the axle shaft....just a theory.
The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

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Plate Cap
Posts: 447
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Location: After the rectifier stack

Re: Radio Interference

Post by Plate Cap » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:41 am

Image
The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

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ZenithCKLW
Posts: 87
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Location: Livonia, MI

Re: Radio Interference

Post by ZenithCKLW » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:33 am

Funny you say that Plate Cap. I bought one of those straps when I was having the problem. I meant to install it, but I got my tires rotated first. It is now sitting in the door pocket in my car. Ha!

Anyways, I don't know much about tires or interference from the rubber, but the best I can assume is that one offending tire was close to an antenna or ground, and moving it away resolved the problem. Or, an improperly installed wheel was resolved after a rotation as you suggested. I don't know. I can't scientifically prove any reason, I just know that I no longer have the problem. Thank God.

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SolarMax
Posts: 410
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Location: 313

Re: Radio Interference

Post by SolarMax » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:33 am

I had a Buick that also generated RF noise of all descriptions, making the AM radio useless. The embedded rear-window wire grid AM antenna didn't exactly help either. My in-car radio listening on AM is usually for getting a traffic report, but I'd have to be in an area where WWJ's or WJR's signal could overcome the noise.

I always liked the static discharge straps that had a lightning bolt printed on them.

FYI, ARRL, the national amateur radio organization, has a trove of information on RFI in general, and many pages worth of links just related to automotive issues.
http://www.arrl.org/automotive

The Jan/Feb 2000 issue of technical magazine QEX had a paper on auto RFI, page 32 of the PDF-
Automotive RFI Elimination

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Turkeytop
Posts: 2892
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:27 pm

Re: Radio Interference

Post by Turkeytop » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:34 pm

Plate Cap wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:27 am
Turkeytop wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:02 pm

There was a sticker inside the door saying the vehicle met some FCC standard. I sent a letter to GM and asked them to show me where that car had been tested and shown to meet the standard. They never replied
You seem like a nice, gentle, intelligent, friendly man, and I have from time to time picked on you. I don't mean to offend, I really don't, and I generally apologize, but the common point in many of your messages is that there should be "someone" (implication is the government) to fix or prohibit such things. We are portrayed as just mindless functionaries that should turn over 60% of our wages until we retire and expect everything to be handled for us as a result.

That "someone" in government is most always under-qualified, quagmired in bureaucracy, and expensive.

Although it is certain not a liberal position, WE MUST return to thinking for ourselves in most things. There was not a "Ministry of Westward Expansion" to do everything including driving the Conestoga wagons for both the US and Canadian expansions. People did it themselves, a lot of them died, but it worked out.

In the case of your car, you inquire among your friends and local experts (we are they), and we tell you things like get some ignition suppression plugs, wires, and put in a new capacitor across the ignition points (I'm assuming this was an old car; if not disregard this step), and your problem will go away. Any ham dating back to the 1920s would tell you that. There simply is not 'someone' at government to fix it for you, and a letter to GM would get lost.

I'm not a Bible-banger, but it's often said..God helps those that help themselves. Not a popular thought with liberals, and increasing less so every day, but still true.
Just for the record, I'm not a liberal. I'm a socialist. I despise liberals. As much as I disagree with conservatives, I can respect them. Conservatives stand by their principles. Liberals have no principles

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