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The Death of PBS/NPR?

Topics of general interest that just don't fit anywhere else.
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Vic Doucette
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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by Vic Doucette » Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:33 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:08 pm
FET-500 wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:58 am
if you're in south eastern Michigan: WDET pulls a 0.6
You're missing the point. This isn't about ratings. Sure, NPR could boost its ratings by filling the hours with mindless chatter, celebrity gossip, sports news, head banging music and screaming political rants. But the other stations are already doing that. NPR's goal is to produce high quality programs and they do that admirably. NPR's programs are available to everyone if they choose to listen
The point is not about saving tax dollars; the money going to public radio and TV is demonstrably negligible. The point is attempting to silence programming that someone doesn't like.


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Turkeytop
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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by Turkeytop » Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:49 pm

Vic Doucette wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:33 pm


The point is not about saving tax dollars; the money going to public radio and TV is demonstrably negligible. The point is attempting to silence programming that someone doesn't like.
If defunding NPR didn't silence it, they'd probably look for another way to silence it.



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TC Talks
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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by TC Talks » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:01 pm

FET-500 wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:58 am
TC Talks wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:46 pm
Here is the entire US Federal budget. You people are wasting energy on Public broadcasting?
Image
It's a $1.35 for each citizen. Money is spent on a station nobody cares about if you're in south eastern Michigan: WDET pulls a 0.6
This is a fine place to start cutting. We can battle over entitlements later.
Nice try, public broadcasting reaches approximately 15 to 18% of the market. The commercial radio ratings book does not accurately reflect public broadcast radio listenership. Try pulling RCC data.

Even in the days of Arbitron commercial broadcasters didn't want public broadcasting included. In Traverse City, 22% of listeners spend time with public radio each day.


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FET-500
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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by FET-500 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:09 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:01 pm
FET-500 wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:58 am
TC Talks wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:46 pm
Here is the entire US Federal budget. You people are wasting energy on Public broadcasting?
Image
It's a $1.35 for each citizen. Money is spent on a station nobody cares about if you're in south eastern Michigan: WDET pulls a 0.6
This is a fine place to start cutting. We can battle over entitlements later.
Nice try, public broadcasting reaches approximately 15 to 18% of the market. The commercial radio ratings book does not accurately reflect public broadcast radio listenership. Try pulling RCC data.

Even in the days of Arbitron commercial broadcasters didn't want public broadcasting included. In Traverse City, 22% of listeners spend time with public radio each day.


None of that addresses the $1.35 some of us may not wish to contribute.



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TC Talks
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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by TC Talks » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:41 pm

FET-500 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:09 pm
None of that addresses the $1.35 some of us may not wish to contribute.
I have paid 72 million dollars to the Trump corporation this year for the Government's use of his golf clubs. I guess you will need to just suck it up. Also, 3 billion in subsidies to the oil companies. There are bigger fish to fry in government waste.


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KevakaTheGr8
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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by KevakaTheGr8 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:42 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:08 pm
FET-500 wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:58 am
if you're in south eastern Michigan: WDET pulls a 0.6
You're missing the point. This isn't about ratings. Sure, NPR could boost its ratings by filling the hours with mindless chatter, celebrity gossip, sports news, head banging music and screaming political rants. But the other stations are already doing that. NPR's goal is to produce high quality programs and they do that admirably. NPR's programs are available to everyone if they choose to listen
I agree that PBS and NPR's goals are to produce quality stuff. One thing that I hate about commercial stations is that they always fill the hours with these mindless shows where everyone is dumb and can't take anything seriously and boring sportscasts constantly INTERRUPTED by Verizon's cheesy ads which make hardly any show left. Even though I'm going into 7th grade in a week (as of 8/19/18) I still watch PBS Kids and I'm an only child and they somehow make the humour not mindless. Even though Delta Dental makes WKAR air these sponsorship messages during PBS Kids breaks alongside these boring WKAR Family spots and random music videos and generic PBS Kids promos and badly edited schedule bumpers (in which the music videos and the sponsorship messages are worse than Verizon's ads, why does MSUFCU need to use GoAnimate) but at least they're not shoved into my face every five minutes.
Last edited by KevakaTheGr8 on Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.



sfpcc
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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by sfpcc » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:15 pm

[quote=
I agree that PBS and NPR's goals are to produce quality stuff. One thing that I hate about commercial stations is that they always fill the hours with these mindless shows where everyone is dumb and can't take anything seriously and boring sportscasts constantly INTERRUPTED by Verizon's cheesy ads which make hardly any show left. Even though I'm going into 7th grade in a week (as of 8/19/18) I still watch PBS Kids and I'm an only child and they somehow make the humour not mindless. Even though Delta Dental makes WKAR air these sponsorship messages during PBS Kids breaks alongside these boring WKAR Family spots and random music videos (in which the music videos and the sponsorship messages are worse than Verizon's ads, why does MSUFCU need to use GoAnimate) but at least they're not shoved into my face every five minutes.
[/quote]


I'm not sure what kind of cable you have but I kind of have a suggestion. You might want to check out TCM. They are commercial free and you get to see more than a century of cinema. I'm not sure if you're a fan of old movies, but when I was your age I was, (I got by on Bill Kennedy and Channel 7's 4:30 movie.)



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MWmetalhead
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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Aug 25, 2018 5:50 pm

PBS and NPR do not need government funding. They would both survive no problem without it. Just as private corporations love tax breaks and government subsidies - and seldom refuse them - NPR and PBS content producers enjoy the funding the federal government chips in each year.

Little if any programming would be eliminated if the government subsidy dried up. Content producers might need to tighten their belts a bit and modestly reduce the rates they charge stations to carry programming. All Things Considered and Morning Edition do not need a subsidy; those programs have just as many listeners as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. In the money demo, it wouldn't surprise me if ATC and ME outperform Limbaugh and the Wallbanger in national ratings.

Just because the money given to PBS and NPR is a tiny percentage of the federal budget does not make the subsidy defensible. Think of the number of pork barrel programs where the same statement can be made. Add them together and suddenly we're talking about a material amount of money.


Radio's downfall has been under-investing in its core competency and becoming distracted by delusions of grandeur by thinking development of a half-assed national digital strategy will somehow put it on par with the Facebooks and Googles of the world.

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TC Talks
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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by TC Talks » Sat Aug 25, 2018 5:52 pm

How about we focus on the outrageous military spending.


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MWmetalhead
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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:00 pm

No argument from me, TC Talks. I agree with you on that point.

I do not like the military industrial complex. And with infrequent exception, I dislike corporate welfare in pretty much all its forms. (Although imperfect, I was supportive of the auto bailout.)

I will say this, though, getting back to the Public Radio topic - a case can be made to provide partial financial support to some of the small market stations. However, not one penny of tax dollars should be going to content producers at the national level or to stations in medium or large cities.


Radio's downfall has been under-investing in its core competency and becoming distracted by delusions of grandeur by thinking development of a half-assed national digital strategy will somehow put it on par with the Facebooks and Googles of the world.

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TC Talks
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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by TC Talks » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:03 pm

The only reason it's a topic is due to politics and not a genuine concern for cost control. It's like arguing about a few grains of sand being wasted at a beach.


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Turkeytop
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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by Turkeytop » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:17 pm

NPR is most reliable news source on radio in the U.S. On SXM I get the audio feed from CNBC and I listen to it a lot, but mostly for entertainment. When I want trustworthy, factual and unbiased news coverage, I listen to NPR, CBC, BBC or Radio Havana.



Radio Sucks
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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by Radio Sucks » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:05 am

Our fearless leader wrote:I will say this, though, getting back to the Public Radio topic - a case can be made to provide partial financial support to some of the small market stations. However, not one penny of tax dollars should be going to content producers at the national level or to stations in medium or large cities.
It's an interesting problem. Grants from the CPB go to small market stations which use the grants to pay NPR and other program sources for their content. This allows those stations to use local donations and underwriting to pay for things like the electric bills and payroll. Some small and medium market stations would not be able to maintain operations without these grants.



organman95
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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by organman95 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:12 pm

Radio Sucks wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:05 am
It's an interesting problem. Grants from the CPB go to small market stations which use the grants to pay NPR and other program sources for their content. This allows those stations to use local donations and underwriting to pay for things like the electric bills and payroll. Some small and medium market stations would not be able to maintain operations without these grants.
Correct, but then you have universities like Central Michigan University that operate four full-power TV and some number (I'm not sure how many) of radio stations throughout mid- and northern Michigan. If that funding were to be cut, I don't see CMU having to shut down all operations. I think there is enough in the 'local' fundraising to continue operating a few stations. Most markets wouldn't completely lose their PBS station.



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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by Radio Sucks » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:18 am

If Public Media Funding Is Cut, Rural Areas Could Lose Government News

From the article..
Maine Public has a more robust local funding operation... But it still pales in comparison to big-market public media outlets. Maine Public operates on an annual budget of roughly $12 million, with 14 percent of that money coming from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. By comparison, WAMU in Washington, D.C., has an annual budget of over $25 million, with just 5 percent coming from the federal government.
WCMU Radio and TV is an $8 million a year operation. Of that, $1.4 million, or about 18%, comes from the CPB.
The previous poster wrote:If that funding were to be cut, I don't see CMU having to shut down all operations.
If suddenly, someone took away 18% of your personal household income, what would you do? The electric bill alone for 4 TV's and 8 Radios is about half a mil. Which signals do you turn off?

Just To Show I Didn't Make That Up, Here's the Link to WCMU Financial Reports


NOTE - I edited the headline in this post to avoid having this thread focus on a more political topic. Lots of Presidents and Congresses have tried to cut public funding for NPR and PBS, and that is the topic. AND it is such a small portion of the federal budget that is out of control in many other areas.

Note that CPB gives much larger grants in actual dollars to smaller markets. Maine - $1.65 million. Traverse City - $1.4. DC - $1.25



organman95
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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by organman95 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:51 am

Radio Sucks wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:18 am
If suddenly, someone took away 18% of your personal household income, what would you do? The electric bill alone for 4 TV's and 8 Radios is about half a mil. Which signals do you turn off?

Note that CPB gives much larger grants in actual dollars to smaller markets. Maine - $1.65 million. Traverse City - $1.4. DC - $1.25
Well considering CMU is actually the Bay City/Midland/Saginaw market, they could technically shut off all three TV towers in the TC/Cadillac market if they wanted to. However, *if* they were to shut any of them down, it would probably be WCMW. Between WGVU and WCMV, the Manistee/Ludington areas would be fine. I am technically closer to WCMW via line-of-sight and distance, but I pick up WCMV. Figure that out.



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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by Radio Sucks » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:32 am

Someone making an interesting but very flawed argument wrote:Well considering CMU is actually the Bay City/Midland/Saginaw market, they could technically shut off all three TV towers in the TC/Cadillac market if they wanted to.
True the college is located and one of the the four TV signals is licensed to Isabella County, which is the Flint/Saginaw/Bay City DMA - Market 72. Two are in the TC/Cad DMA (Market 119) and one in the Alpena DMA Market 20. So, cutting the CPB grant to WCMU would eliminate programming to two small markets (according to your suggestion) and require another $1 million dollar budget cut. What else would you eliminate?



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MWmetalhead
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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by MWmetalhead » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:33 pm

Subsidies cause prices to rise. If the CPB went away, I think programming would become cheaper for NPR and PBS member stations to purchase.


Radio's downfall has been under-investing in its core competency and becoming distracted by delusions of grandeur by thinking development of a half-assed national digital strategy will somehow put it on par with the Facebooks and Googles of the world.

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audiophile
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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by audiophile » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:46 am

No doubt! What those member stations pay for network programming is crazy. I think it got that high because CPB was paying for most of it.

https://www.quora.com/Was-Car-Talk-real ... how-on-NPR


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Re: The Death of PBS/NPR?

Post by rugratsonline » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:39 pm

organman95 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:51 am
Radio Sucks wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:18 am
If suddenly, someone took away 18% of your personal household income, what would you do? The electric bill alone for 4 TV's and 8 Radios is about half a mil. Which signals do you turn off?

Note that CPB gives much larger grants in actual dollars to smaller markets. Maine - $1.65 million. Traverse City - $1.4. DC - $1.25
Well considering CMU is actually the Bay City/Midland/Saginaw market, they could technically shut off all three TV towers in the TC/Cadillac market if they wanted to.
Technically, in the digital era, three of the four transmitters are in the Traverse City market (WCMU's is in Martiny Township, in Mecosta County; and WCML Alpena is in that city's small market), but point well taken. Of course, as they recently sold and shuttered WCMZ Flint, no doubt they may one day close one or more of its satellites to make ends meet.



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